Sharee Johnson [00:00:13]:
Hello and welcome to Recalibrating with me, Sharee Johnson, where you'll hear healthcare professionals and others sharing their stories of recalibrating life when the unexpected happened. As a psychologist and a coach, I've been listening deeply to people's stories for 35 years, and I've come to believe two things about people. The first is having witnessed so many incredible stories of hope, adaptability and human capacity, I truly believe that we are all capable of so much more than we really think we are in times of challenge. Humans have demonstrated that over and over again. Here on the Recalibrating podcast, you'll get to hear amazing stories of healthcare professionals and others pivoting, overcoming and recalibrating their lives. The second thing that the research and my experiences as a psychologist have shown me is that humans need each other. We need people. When we have support around us, when we tell each other our stories, when we connect through the reality of of living our lives, we do so much better than when we pull back and hide what's really going on for us. Together on this podcast, we're going to unearth and amplify what helps us as humans, individually and collectively, to recalibrate in ways that help us change, grow, adapt, even surprise ourselves when life throws us a curveball. This podcast offers you the chance to be inspired and and encouraged to meet the unexpected in your life with grace, skills and a belief in your own human capacity. Life is full of opportunities to recalibrate with agency, the right mindset, the right resources and the right community. Welcome to Recalibrating with Sharee Johnson. Rebecca Clark, it's lovely to see you.
Rebecca Clarke [00:02:09]:
Lovely to see you too, Sharee.
Sharee Johnson [00:02:11]:
So, Bec, you've worked in lots of different parts of the Australian health system. Can you tell us a bit about your current working luck to kick us off?
Rebecca Clarke [00:02:19]:
Yeah, sure. So my current role is head of Transformation and Community at Beamtree and Health Roundtable. That role is quite all encompassing. So the role is really about governance and quality of the indicators that sit within Health Roundtable, but also how do we really work with our members to make sure that what we're providing as a service, both in our service delivery, but also the quality of the platform is in line with their needs and contemporary needs and changing needs of the healthcare landscape.
Sharee Johnson [00:02:53]:
Can you just tell us what Health Roundtable is?
Rebecca Clarke [00:02:55]:
Bec, Health Roundtable is a international, so both Australia and New Zealand, not for profit organization that is a data analytics service, but also really about bringing the healthcare community together. It's been operating for over 30 years. And it was started by nine CEOs really wanting to look over their fence to understand where there was variance between practice across hospitals. So that's expanded. Now there's over 200 members. We're a very privileged space where we have the opportunity to work with hospitals across Australia and New Zealand, which also enables us to work with some of our colleges as well, because we have a very large professional, very large data set. So part of my other role within that is in the governance space is research, quality improvement and working with organizations and working with researchers who want access to the data for benefits the Australian New Zealand community.
Sharee Johnson [00:03:51]:
I want to come back and talk to you a lot about this data set further, but before we go there, some more questions about who Bet Clark is maybe just on this piece here, how do you find working in this kind of role international, looking at big data, interacting with lots of people across lots of systems. That's pretty different to the nursing beginning that you had in healthcare.
Rebecca Clarke [00:04:16]:
Yeah, it certainly is. So I am a registered nurse by background. My passion for going into nursing was really around international aid nursing. That was, I think, when I was near its foundational years, there was the Kosovo crisis and I really wanted to really sort, I guess inspired me seeing, you know, news and to really head down that pathway. So I undertook a Bachelor of Nursing and then started my career really working in emergency departments. So I did my graduate year and then headed into emergency departments both in Western Australia and in Tasmania. And I also worked in remote communities as well, so in far northern WA and also had some opportunity to work in far Northern Queen Queensland as well. So in an Aboriginal community. So from there working in emergency departments, I knew that the longevity of working in emergency departments, probably I needed to think about that in my own internal self. Along the way, though, I did want to obviously become a, I guess expert in my field or to improve my knowledge around emergency nursing at the time. So I undertook a graduate diploma of Emergency Nursing. From there I was probably exposed to a little bit more research and epidemiology and biostatistics, which led me down a pathway which seems at a really natural synergy with a Master's of Public Health. The Masters of Public Health and Tropical Medicine opened the doors for me to work in public health. So I worked in a couple of different spheres in public health, tobacco legislation and then also heading into the pandemic really opened up the doors for me to work in the pandemic response. So both in the operational space within the hospital and also on the public Health response side along the way, which was a little bit before this. I did do an occupational health and safety degree because I was doing fly in, fly out, harm minimization in the mines as well when I was in wa. The public health degree really further inspired that research lens and really understanding the complexities of the, I guess the world in which we deliver healthcare, the community as well our people. And that led me on to the opportunity to work in another area which was excellence in research as I progressed through my career within the hospital space, which allowed me to work with our nurses and midwives within the health service that I worked within, around quality improvement, building capability. Yeah. And professional practice within nursing.
Sharee Johnson [00:06:51]:
Are you doing any clinical work at all now?
Rebecca Clarke [00:06:54]:
No, I'm not currently doing any clinical work. It has, it had resurfaced in a conversation last night actually about when, you know, when were you like, when did you feel connected, when did you feel deep satisfaction in your work and what got you to the place that you were? And it's inspired me to think about going back and just keeping connected with my clinical practice because I do really love working with patients and that's ultimately the reason why, you know, we're here in high level service improvement is to make sure that the care we provide our patients is exemplar and no harm is caused.
Sharee Johnson [00:07:31]:
You've already given us a beautiful example bec of this ongoing nature of recalibrating. And what an amazing story in terms of the big of you starting in emergency care, wanting to be an expert in your own field of nursing and then looking out wider into the hospital and looking at wider and wider and wider until your role. Now I think this is really interesting story of recalibrating and I hope the nurses listening and not just nurses, everybody listening can hear that clinical work and leadership and governance and those other things can be things that we can move between backwards and forwards. Can you go back another step now and just tell us a little bit about those early years that came before you got to nursing?
Rebecca Clarke [00:08:11]:
Sure. I'm one of six. I'm born from first generation migrant parents, so from Europe, came here post war. I would say that my early childhood years were complex, as most are. And so I was often the caregiver in my family, even for my older siblings. And that's really started me on a pathway into a caring field. So that was like that, you know, those first thoughts about where I would head in a career. So I undertook nursing and then just before I started, just before I moved to WA for my Graduate program. I decided I really wanted to set some good foundations and I Undertook a vipassana, 10 days of pasta meditation. And so that was really about starting on a new pathway, setting a new intention. One of the key things I learned in that it was challenging. It's 10 days, no speaking, no eating after 12, 11 hours of meditation, no caffeine, no sugar, no books, no phones, just with yourself. I learned some pretty incredible things in that. So I learned about only I give the things that have happened to me in my life power. So I can choose. As long as I'm aware of how my body is feeling, I can choose a new pathway. I have control over my emotions and how much energy I give, negative or positive emotions. That's been a pretty pivotal thing in my life to be able to understand how your body works and the control that you have. It's not always been easy, but it gives you those foundations on how you can really look after yourself and be brave and challenge yourself and step into the uncomfortable.
Sharee Johnson [00:09:58]:
Given the impact that the Vipassana retreat had for you, I want to call it a Vipassana practice. I don't really like calling it a retreat because. Retreat, yeah, much currency in other ways. Now. Have you been for another vipassana since that first one?
Rebecca Clarke [00:10:13]:
No, I haven't. I definitely haven't. And I would say that I, I am an active meditator now, so I use other ways to, to have calm. So I enjoy being deep in the bush, trail running, mountain biking, hiking. So I sort of am more of a, an active, mindful person now. I know when I need to reset. I know when I need to have my hands in the soil. So I will use those practices. I definitely practice breath work. I really know when I'm not breathing well and how that is impacting my own internal self. But I've not revisited Vipassana. But yeah, it's not a bad idea though.
Sharee Johnson [00:10:54]:
Well, just curiosity, I wonder, this beautiful learning that you had so early on in your, in your life, really just before you started your professional training as a nurse, how did you have the idea, how did you even know that Vipassana existed?
Rebecca Clarke [00:11:10]:
It's actually was one of my older brothers, so I've got three older brothers. One of them had used meditation quite significantly in his life for management of a range of different things. We talked about it before. Yeah. So he was the one who really set me on that pathway. So I have a huge thanks to him.
Sharee Johnson [00:11:30]:
And, and I hope that I want to really point to something for the listeners. I don't want anyone to miss it. That you talked about learning about your body and the power is given by you and the energy is a choice that you give to any particular emotion. And I think these are really important things for healthcare people to listen to, particularly perhaps physical therapists and doctors and nurses because you learn so much about the anatomy and you know, things that I meet in my day to day work is that people think that they know about their body or they know about the body and that that's the technical element, if you like, of the body. You know, where does this vein go and how does this artery connect and you know all those things. But you're talking about a different kind of body knowing and body power. Can you say a little bit more about that?
Rebecca Clarke [00:12:17]:
Yeah. I think that what I didn't understand was the subtle signs and symptoms within myself. So I didn't, I didn't realize when I wasn't breathing properly. I didn't initially, I guess I didn't really know where I held tension. Subtle signs around management of challenges within my life, sleep, not sleeping well and a range of those, I guess different components. I'm not really headache person, but I definitely know that when I was heading into a of stressful phase that those sorts of things would start to pop up and a range of different ways that even I would move my body to cope with, to cope with stress or manage those situations. So for me a huge amount of it focuses on breath. So breathing, how I hold tension in my body, where I hold tension in my body, even behaviors and not finding stillness in your day. So keeping busy continuously and not being able to sit with yourself, they're things that I learned that I was doing to cope and manage with stressful situations.
Sharee Johnson [00:13:30]:
And have you shared this kind of stuff with your colleagues?
Rebecca Clarke [00:13:36]:
I would say some of them that are closer to me, I've shared with them, but not more broadly. No.
Sharee Johnson [00:13:42]:
Thank you for sharing today. I really appreciate that. And when you. One more question here before we move on. When you talk about breathing properly, can you just help the people listening understand what you mean by that?
Rebecca Clarke [00:13:54]:
So when I talk about breathing properly, I think that when we're in a state of anxiety or stress, we don't take a deep breath. I would say that I just, I know when I'm breathing shallowly, I also know that I need to breathe in through my nose and out through my mouth. And it's actually, you know, in Vipassana you learn about even feeling your breath through your nose and the awareness of that and how Calming and centering. That is just to notice those very small, small things, because when you are more in tune with your body, it really enables you to center yourself and be present.
Sharee Johnson [00:14:32]:
Thank you for that. While you're talking, I did a nice big belly breath myself, just to maximize the impact. So let's hear a little bit more about your early life. So you said started off in nursing, you went to Western Australia. Where were you? Where did you go from?
Rebecca Clarke [00:14:46]:
I studied in Queensland and Victoria, actually, and then went to Western Australia. So I worked at Sir Charles Gardiner Hospital. I did rotations through there and then transitioned to the emergency department. I met my husband in Western Australia, who does happen to be from Tasmania, which is where I now reside. We went on a big trip around Australia and then I ended up in Paribidu and Tom Price. So small mining towns, beautiful towns with, yeah, beautiful surrounding, you know, nature and experience and also the Aboriginal people within the land. So, yeah, that was pretty amazing. Then we came back to Tasmania. So where I worked within Tasmanian Health Service, both in acute and primary health.
Sharee Johnson [00:15:28]:
Can we go back to Tom Price and the remote work for a minute?
Rebecca Clarke [00:15:32]:
What. Yeah.
Sharee Johnson [00:15:32]:
What did you learn there? Because that's a very different environment to where you've been before that. So what. What recalibrating or learning did you do there about health in Australia?
Rebecca Clarke [00:15:42]:
I'm quite passionate about remote health, Aboriginal health. So I was. You were the only nurse there. Most often you had a GP in the town two days a week. So obviously there was a huge reliance on virtual care, which you wouldn't. Now it's virtual care was telehealth, so rfds and then also colleagues back in the metropolitan area. So in Perth, and then really relying on those key roles that were within the hospital, which may only be an orderly or an aide. So I learned a huge amount of, I guess, autonomy within that role, where I'd been supported in Metro services. And then all of a sudden you're pretty isolated and alone. So there was a lot of backing yourself, judgment systems and processes. So obviously there was fairly firm protocols around management to ensure that you had help early. And then, yeah, there were some pretty interesting experiences when you had people calling up who were remote areas and they'd been bitten by something and you're trying to find where they are and navigate services to them. So, yeah, I again, spent a lot of time in the outdoors. That's part of the reason that I was there, because I prefer to be outside. There were beautiful things that I still was able to connect with the bush
Sharee Johnson [00:17:06]:
Most of the people that I've talked with who've worked in the remote communities, which I have never done, talk about access and equity, things that they, they learned about through those experiences.
Rebecca Clarke [00:17:17]:
Yeah, it was certainly challenging. The two areas I worked in were mining towns. So surrounding Aboriginal communities, huge levels of inequity. I would say where I learned most about inequity really like yes, my exposure really was to the mining community there. Wujawujil was really, really understood about inequity. That was a dry community but you know, to go shopping there or even in, you know, in Paribat, the cost of like healthy food was just so exorbitant and almost, you know, prohibitive to any healthy lifestyles experience. Between Paribudoo and Wujawujal, where Wujawujil had embedded Aboriginal health workers who really worked alongside and delivered both western and bush medicine, that was probably a far better experience in terms of integration, support for the indigenous community. But also, you know, Wujawuja was cut off by water, you know, for six months of the year at times. And also further, further away which was trying to camp a little remote satellite community that sat outside of that. And then obviously the huge inequities that have existed with displacement of people and loss of culture and roles where they really don't have some of those stronger foundations in those pride building activities that were once there, that's been replaced by other elements like alcohol. But where there's a strong community, a strong, yeah, strong families, you really see beautiful culture coming together to be able to really have a healthy, active community. So yeah, but I would distance food, health service, inequity health services that are really tailored to, you know, our Caucasian community as opposed to our Aboriginal community. So yeah, it was, yeah, very interesting experience.
Sharee Johnson [00:19:12]:
I imagine that those are kind of life changing experiences as well. You can't unsee what you've seen.
Rebecca Clarke [00:19:17]:
No, no. There's a beautiful book by Richard Trudgen. I think that's the author why Warriors Lay down and Die and really talking about, yeah. Impacts of colonization on the community. I learned a lot there about, yeah. Respect about storytelling. It was an amazing experience.
Sharee Johnson [00:19:38]:
I could just stay here and talk with you about this all of the time.
Rebecca Clarke [00:19:40]:
Also about connection to land. You know, I think that that's just hugely important for me. You know, the connection to land for Aboriginal people is so important and for me that's an integral thing and I think I've sort of taken a little bit of that with me and how important that is for Grounding you ended
Sharee Johnson [00:19:57]:
up in Tasmania, you decided that you'd stay there for a while. Y and so what else might we want to understand about you before we move into more about the current work and the health landscape?
Rebecca Clarke [00:20:10]:
I went to school in Tasmania. A lot of my. Some of my family are down here. So I worked in the Tasmanian Health Service, as I said, in the emergency department. I've worked in a varying number of roles within the emergency department, so as a clinical nurse and through into management. My mum worked within the emergency department as well. So as a nurse and I would say that they were fairly complicating. You know, when you work in a town where you are the only emergency department, it becomes complex, I would say, because you're providing care sometimes for your family members. You say that my personal life is fairly exposed at times to my work colleagues, which I'd say is challenging. I think that there'd be many people across Australia who are health care providers who would have those challenges. I certainly know working in Parabidoo that one of the nurses working there had had to resuscitate her own parents. Do you know, there are very complex things as caregivers in small communities and I think that's important to remember. So within that framework I would say that it was. There were some fairly challenging times. So my mother said was first generation migrant, so so had complex problems heading into nursing probably. And then compounding factors as you go through life led to some increased challenges for my mum which ultimately led to her sometimes really not wanting to be here. And then ultimately my mum did take her own life. That was challenging. So she was a nurse within the department that I worked in. I was actually overseas when I found out. So my whole department knew before I did that my mum had passed away. She took drugs from the department which were the medications utilized for her to take her own life. Now, there is no blame upon the service with which we worked because she obviously had complex factors, but it did lead me to think about more broadly the support that we provide our clinicians and led me sort of on a pathway outside of clinical nursing and in leadership and management about how do we really support our people, how does the system support us? As I said, I'm definitely not saying it was a system failure, but can we do it better? That was what I started to think about. You talk about system change and I've always been one to think about is there a different way? Is there a better way? Just because it's been this way the whole time, is it right? And so what I realized in that process was a number of things. One was that the service, there were services obviously of support for clinicians, but are they adequate? Are they the right supports? So it did set me on a pathway of looking to other areas. So where do services do it well and how could we do it better? So within that time, which journeyed through like many years, I will say of different roles, I implemented a number of things that were in part of mandatory training within the department when I was a nurse unit manager was to implement self care within mandatory training. That was only for the nurses though, so it wasn't something that was for the doctors. I will say that there is an incredible support now within the medical community for wellbeing, obviously being driven from Australian College of Emergency Medicine for ED specifically. But at the time I felt like there really wasn't a lot there. The other thing that I noticed was that when there are challenges within a department, it's really about the clinicians that are leading and understanding who's been impacted by those challenges. So debrief sessions were often led by the people who were part of those challenging or traumatic situations. And I really noticed that in the challenging times that I had within the department where my own mother had taken her own life, there was no reach in service. There was no one necessarily, there was no support structure where the people who checked in, but no systemized support structure to support me or others. So it was really a reach out. You had to reach out to eap. And I found that eap, although it is fantastic that healthcare services provide something like eap, how prepared are those clinicians who are working within the EAP service to deal with the complex, complex things that our healthcare practitioners are coming to them with. So are they? Yeah. Are they trauma informed? Some of them? I'm sure they are. I felt some level of support really didn't meet the level of need that I had personally. When you reach out to a service like EAP as a healthcare practitioner, you're fairly resilient. So you're at a point where you probably need a higher level of support than the EAP could provide. So there were things that I really noticed and it started me questioning about what other services are doing. And there are certainly amazing bespoke services that have mandated times that they have to see their clinicians in their trauma informed. There's a review process for the clinicians that are working with these other emergency service workers, police and healthcare workers, where they really have to make sure that they are adequately prepared to deal with A level of trauma. And it's something that I really wanted to see, or I'd love to see more embedded within the healthcare services and system itself. Those challenges are hard to make. These changes are hard to make. When you start to have these conversations, you find people within your community, within healthcare. So there are a number of those people within healthcare that I made connections with, medical staff. So Dr. Cheryl Martin, Dr. Claire Ransden, and then another colleague of mine is not a clinician, Kiersten Gibson. And we found a connection within our healthcare service where we all had a passion to improve, how we supported our staff. So that really set us on a pathway of a number of different supporting structures for staff. So that was introducing the Wellbeing Index, which is a measurement tool for staff wellbeing, the Schwartz Rounds, which is a facilitated conversation that brings in all staff, whether you're a nurse, orderly, doctor, everyone has an opportunity to share, speaking up for safety, and then also a number of other factors to support staff wellbeing. So that really sort of set me on a. How can we change the system? How can we support. Yeah,
Sharee Johnson [00:27:04]:
thank you for telling us about your mum. That obviously was an incredibly difficult time. I can't imagine that feeling of being far away and other people knowing before you knew. I think we have sometimes a kind of idealized picture of the boundaries and the borders and how we keep everything kind of compartmentalized in health. And as you rightly point out, it's the same in New Zealand, in my experience, that people work in community and we know we have lots of dual, triple kind of roles, and so we know each other and we know each other's brothers and sisters or cousins or ex husbands or whoever. That's a very real part of practice in healthcare. It seems like perhaps it's not a crossroad, but it seems like there was some real questioning at that time. And you talked about then saying, are we doing it right? And I know when we were talking, before we started recording, you were referencing the police and some of the systems that they have. And I love this phrase of reach out or reach in that you're using. I can think of many examples recently with my clients where something traumatic has happened, an adverse event, and the key doctor or the key clinical manager, who's very often a nurse, is leading the debriefing of the team and is actively choosing to do that because it feels to them safer than bringing in somebody who's inexperienced or doesn't understand the reality of the system that those people are working in. And I Think that's what you're pointing to, this dilemma of how to reach out in a safe way to people who actually get it.
Rebecca Clarke [00:28:46]:
Yeah.
Sharee Johnson [00:28:46]:
And this dilemma of, well, we'll just run it ourselves, because we really understand, nobody really understands like we do, how that ultimately accumulates, or does that accumulate then, particularly for those senior clinical leaders?
Rebecca Clarke [00:29:02]:
And I think when there's a. When there's a collective knowledge amongst those leaders, who can lead a debrief in the same way, or that's part of a system or process. But I found it was really ad hoc and it was based on who was there, the leader at the time, who was the medical lead, who was a nursing lead that drove that. So it was inconsistently applied, the debriefing methodology. And there is no. For us, there was no definition of what is a critical incident. There was no way to flag that. There's no way to flag within our system that I know of and haven't seen it really well, the cumulative trauma that healthcare workers gather across their careers, where in other services like police service, they. That information is gathered within my experience. So that cumulative trauma is noted. And I spoke about the dpfem, so this particular bespoke wellbeing unit, where they have a. You know, if there is an incident, there is a definition of what an incident is. There is somebody who will call them a defined timeline. They are trained. They are not external agents. They're trained police, fire, emergency management services, people. So their own people who are trained to provide that support. But it's systematised, it's not ad hoc. That is an incredible service. Dpfem. So, Department of Police, Foreign Emergency Management Service. Thank you.
Sharee Johnson [00:30:29]:
Yeah. So for those listening, not in Australia, all the states. And it's the same in many countries. All the states have different departments and different acronyms and different names.
Rebecca Clarke [00:30:38]:
Yeah. Yes.
Sharee Johnson [00:30:40]:
So you've got experiences with your mum and her health and also working in the same department as her, having lots of common people who know each other, the tragic end to her life and these reflections of who reaches in, who reaches out, how do we do that, when is it? Why isn't it systematized? What do other organizations outside of Health do? And all of this led to things like instituting the Schwarz Rounds. Can you tell us a little bit about how the Schwarz Rounds have developed at Tassie Health? They've been there, you've been using them. I know you're not there now, but they've been actively using Schwarz Rounds for a while now.
Rebecca Clarke [00:31:17]:
How gone they have? I found so when I was within the Tasmania Health Service, incredibly powerful. It's just such a safe space for a collaborative communication about the impacts of delivering care on all people within the system. The amazing stories and bringing the human into those supporting services, I found were some of the most profound. So the impacts on our orderlies of dealing with death or complex care that's provided and really opening the door to the lack of, I guess not the lack of support, but understanding about the impacts that providing care does. But this safe space to come together as a community and have a shared understanding and knowing and really bringing people together, I think that was some of the most incredible aspects. But yes, Schwarz Rounds is a facilitated, a trained, facilitated session where there's a panel, there's a topic that's selected. That topic could be like both positive or it could really challenge the people that are in the room. And then there's an audience. There's always a prepared speech or topic from each of the panel members that they talk about their experience relating to the topic. And then the audience has an opportunity to share their own feelings and learnings as well based on that topic. So an incredible thing. I feel very privileged to have worked in the multidisciplinary team to help implement that. Yeah, an incredible experience, an incredible gift to all people working within any health service that has that as a mechanism.
Sharee Johnson [00:32:49]:
I think the Schwarz Rounds are really getting some momentum in Australia and in New Zealand now in that many more hospitals are using them. But one of the criticisms I often hear is that the doctors don't come, that the other people come, the orderlies and the nurses and even sometimes the administrators, but the doctors don't come because it's hard to work out how to fit it in. What's the part of the day that you can have it that allows people to come, and particularly visiting specialists, you know, in hospitals it's harder for them or it's a different context for them. To staff specialists, do you have anything that you've learned or that you've reflected on or that you've heard from other hospitals in the way you travel around to help that. To help facilitate more of the senior staff getting to the Schwartz routes?
Rebecca Clarke [00:33:29]:
Oh, definitely challenging. It does come from leadership's direction, though. So when there's a belief in this as a mechanism, then I think that helps. You would see doctors from more streams coming particularly. So leadership is key, being driven from the top down. Absolutely. The time of day or the day is incredibly important. So some ways we're having in grand round time. So it was a time when sanctioned for medical staff. That was one of the aspects that really helped with bringing medical staff to Schwartz Rounds. You can't utilise that all the time because obviously that's a very important time for learning. When we needed to get more exposure. That is a really good way to sort of get medical staff to attend.
Sharee Johnson [00:34:14]:
I love that. That's two really helpful things to think about, the Grand Rounds time and that it's got to come from leadership. I think we, we meet that so many times with these problems where I love ground up movements. I want to support all ground up movements and the amplification and the speed, the pace that things can happen with leadership. Endorsement is. I think we can't really ignore that. You also referenced earlier the colleagues, Cheryl and so on that you came together with in that process. I think I'd like to just spend a minute there as well. That this finding allies and finding the other champions and finding the other people who can help you progress things. Can you tell us a little bit about the importance of that?
Rebecca Clarke [00:34:57]:
Yeah, I think that community is important. So community, there are communities within your own profession, communities within your division or unit or ward, and then there are those special people that you find that aren't necessarily in those spaces that you connect with and you've got a common goal. And that's also about, you know, stepping outside of those comfort zones and those realms or barriers that are placed sometimes within healthcare systems. We know that there are many silos, but when you work together collectively in multidisciplinary approach, I believe in these situations is so important because me as a nurse trying to promote activities to medical staff isn't always going to work. They need their people to speak to them. But I think it does start to break down barriers. So, yeah, I would say that, you know, they're really special people. That has really led me, but also gave me the confidence to sort of step into those next zones. So I talked a little bit before about my mum and my time in the emergency department. There were fairly line in the sand moments that make you step out. So I had to step out of that emergency department. It wasn't good for me to be in that environment anymore. That was a moment for me to go, this isn't a good place for me to be. This isn't. I don't feel good here. I can feel my body changing. I could feel my own internal self changing. And those people, those communities can help you see that, whether they're your family, your friends, your colleagues. So for Me, that's a moment where you go, okay, it's time for a change and step into something that enables you to, to take what you've learned or the challenges you into that next realm to, to affect change, to support for system improvement, for your own self, to rejuvenate, find passion again. So, yeah, I think those, those people particularly were foundational in that.
Sharee Johnson [00:36:56]:
It's really helpful bec. I think, to. To hear that. That part of your story that we get caught up I think sometimes in saying, well, it's not the individuals, it's not the work the individuals have to do, it's the system. Or, you know, well, the system exists for more than just, you know, you. So it's the individual. And really it's both of those things. Your awareness of knowing what your body was telling you is very individual. Nobody else can know that. That's your awareness of you and what you need and what's happening for you. And then this wider community of people that you're talking about, your support, people who you are able to listen to, professionals and family members and other people that allowed you, I think is the word you used or helped facilitate you to see and feel confident that you could make the change that those people around you, that system, if you like, around you could help you make the change. And then this bigger idea of the organization, which we'll get to as we keep talking, but you're really pointing to all those factors were a part of being able to move into the next realm, as you call it.
Rebecca Clarke [00:37:56]:
Yeah, it's challenging leaving your safe space. So I'd, you know, worked in emergency for, well, in that department, I think nearly 10 years at that point or longer postgraduate studies, I'd say for nursing, I feel like the transition point is potentially easier than for medical staff. There's a significant amount more training for medical staff within their professional pathway. But I definitely see it with my medical colleagues, additional training, diversifying. I think it's important to recognize early if you have the opportunity and you have annoying within yourself because it allows you to take a step out and have a breath and have a dynamic week where you can still have your passion, deliver medically your passion or nursing passion, but also have that area of your work life where you can also rebuild and have a rest and, and just having alternate days in your week.
Sharee Johnson [00:39:04]:
So let's talk about the role of clinical manager and systems change. I wonder if you might tell us what it's like to be a clinical manager, because I think there is also a tendency to do the us and them kind of thing that as clinicians, well, it's the management or maybe as managers, these clinicians won't do what we want them to do. Tell us what it's like to be a clinical manager. You've been on the floor, you've been at the front line and now you're in a management role. What's that shift like?
Rebecca Clarke [00:39:34]:
I would say that it's challenging. I would still say that my most challenging role was on floor management. Because of the pressure you're under, particularly in an emergency department, being the overall clinical manager is definitely. I would think that of all the management positions, nurse unit manager is one of the most challenging. And heads of department medically as well as. Because you've got all of your staff, there's many voices. So in the emergency department at the time that I worked at 300 Nursing Voices who you're representing or you're working with. And so it's very hard to provide meaningful person centered management when you've got 300 staff. I would was personally challenging because obviously you want to give more of yourself to people. I'm a people person and I care deeply about the people I work with. But then you've got all the other additional people that you're working with that are your aides and your orderlies and you also are managing them at times, depending on the governance structure. So it is a very challenging role. But then you're also competing with the system pressures that are coming down upon you. Leading change that you don't always agree with or change that you do agree with and then getting buy in from your clinicians. Change management is hard, particularly in environments where there's continuous change and change fatigue is in place. So how do you find those people who are those change makers within your organisation to help support you with that is incredibly important. Working in a multidisciplinary way. So working with your heads of department, both medically and allied health, because across all areas, but particularly med, you're a team. There is no factor that can exist without the other. So leaning into all areas of management as a clinical manager, I think is really important to make sure you're aligned and lead together. And I think that when you look at those broader system things like staff wellbeing change, because change is going to happen to everyone. It's important to be aligned and working together. It is lonely. I think being a clinical manager is really lonely when you are protecting your staff from the challenges that exist that are coming from the top down. And also knowing the Complex interactions or the complex personal things that are occurring for your staff, and holding that in a professional way, it does make it very lonely at times. And that's something that I've had to learn to, to deal with. And that's part of the reason why I run or get in the garden or have those positive outlets, because you can't hold all of that yourself, like it's too, too much. And I don't think anyone expects you to hold all of those emotional things. You have to hold it, but you have to know when to step out of the door and put that down. To be able to walk into the door with your family, your kids and be present. That is a hard thing to learn. As a clinical manager, I can feel
Sharee Johnson [00:42:34]:
the weight of that, carrying that around with you, all those voices and all those needs. Let's talk about systems change. What's that phrase even mean?
Rebecca Clarke [00:42:46]:
So, obviously, healthcare is a complex system, complex dynamic system. There is continuous need to change, to adapt, whether it's a model of care change, whether it's a policy change, whether it's a device change. As you go through leadership, there are more complex, huge governance changes, systems, process changes that occur, people changes. And I think in healthcare you have to take such a huge volume of people with you on change when it doesn't go well. That is complex for the people who are working within the system because the continual adaptation to that system change makes the next thing harder to be successful. So system change is occurring around us all the time. How do we identify what our stakeholders need or want or what are their needs within our system? Change is really important and I think that will lead to the success or the. I guess I don't want to say failure because there's no failures. There's always a learning in whether something doesn't go well or not. But yeah, system changes everywhere. And I think that as clinical leaders, as clinicians, as anyone, we have to be mindful of change management, the impact of change management or system changes, to ensure that we don't cause harm to individuals and that we can make it as successful and seamless as possible.
Sharee Johnson [00:44:22]:
So when we're thinking about systems change, you've talked a bit about the managing of the people and bringing people along for the change. What about the management? Up or out? What can you share with us that seems important for us to think about there?
Rebecca Clarke [00:44:40]:
I think it's important, to be honest. I think that sometimes when you are in a management position, particularly middle management, there's a desire to. You just have to be Honest about the impact to staff and implementation. So I think that that's really important. So honesty, Naomi, in a constructive way so that you can adapt and change as needs require for staff, or if something's not working well, there's always ability to tweak or to improve along the way. And I think that's really important for honesty. I think it's important to flag early when there's something that's not going well or something that's going really well. They're really important things. And also important to make sure that you tell the right people. Because I've definitely been in situations where you. You tell your direct line manager. But the impacts of that system change can be broad and involves other stakeholders who are important. And if you don't convey that well enough. So I think that's really important. I think the other thing within healthcare, and I know we don't forget it, but the impact to our patients, our clients, I think that we've also got to make sure that we're thinking about our people, but also the people that we're servicing. And I think that that's always important to understand the impact on both parties and both sides. Yeah, obviously consumer feedback, pre implementation for system change and also post implementation is really or during implementation is really important. They're the key things.
Sharee Johnson [00:46:15]:
I think we have held a bit of a binary view that it's either the patients get the care or the staff get the care. And really we're looking for ways to be able to deliver both of those things. Certainly my view. Well, when the staff feel valued, I think that's the key. When staff feel heard and seen, then they are more willing, more able, there's more discretionary effort. They're more able to be really present with their patients. And they want to be present with their patients, in my experience.
Rebecca Clarke [00:46:45]:
Absolutely.
Sharee Johnson [00:46:45]:
And give excellent care and the best care. It was great that you gave a number to the people that you're managing, the 300 voices, the 300 nurses. The realities of that are incredibly challenging. That you. For 300 people to feel heard and seen and valued, who all have different needs and different requirements, is very challenging. And those 300 people are servicing, providing care to 3,000 other people. We're talking really big numbers. So I think that's a kind of a good segue into the big data set that you're looking at and talking about now. How is it when you get this big umbrella kind of view up on the balcony view, what else do you notice to add to this complex picture that we're building
Rebecca Clarke [00:47:29]:
just as a segue into that, my transition from working operationally within a hospital. And I felt I'd reached a point point where I had probably no more to give operationally and I had to recognize it in myself. It wasn't necessarily the system, but I'd reached a point where I felt like I couldn't, I, I'd hit a ceiling or I couldn't help anymore. That really led me to go, okay, right, this is one hospital, this is one space, this is one health service in one state. How is it that I can look at this from a different lens? How can I look at this from the bird's eye view and come in and support different services or to understand different services? And that was what triggered me to go, it's time for another change. I know that I, my own self probably am not being as effectual as I'd like to be. And not that I'd lost passion, my passion is very much there. But I needed to change again. I needed to think about how I could do something different in a different way, but still provide the level of care or service or support to other organizations. That was not an easy decision to make to step out of. My whole life had been really tailored working in public health service. I thought I would live and then die within a hospital. It was a real shift. It was a complex shift. Your ego, your sense of self is attached to that. And so to step outside of that was a big change. And people said, oh, you're so brave to step outside and, you know, to lose all the benefits of being working in government for such a long period of time. But for me, I felt I couldn't stay. I felt like they were brave to stay or I really needed. For me, I felt a level of abandonment, actually leaving my people where I knew that there were, as there is everywhere, challenges with staffing. So stepping into where I am now in metadata, essentially. So working with hospitals across Australia and New Zealand is a pretty beautiful place to be. So I'm so privileged that people allow you to step into their worlds, work with them on their data, understanding the complex systems that they're delivering healthcare in, you know, where I'm working with organizations that are remote communities, in urban settings, diverse communities, very fiscally challenged environment at the moment across all of Australia. How do you deliver care that's holiday and safe and safer staff and safer patients, so hugely privileged place which really allowed me to reset and reboost and regenerate, working in a positive way with hospitals across Australia and New Zealand and gave me the space. So working in a hospital where I was in a very connected role, you know, I think I visited every health service. I'm not gonna say I knew every nurse, but I have a very odd memory for faces and names. So I felt like I was, yeah. On show quite continuously to working in an organization where I work remotely. I work from home a lot of the time unless I get to travel and go and see a site. So it was a very interesting sort of step and process where you were so embedded in an organization to be able to sort of step in and step out. And that gave me a chance to lift myself up a bit. But very privileged to work with organizations, I can't get that across enough. I feel very privileged to be able to step into this world and support. It's hard to step out sometimes because that connection is really important.
Sharee Johnson [00:51:23]:
I think your energy is really evident bec that this has uplifted you and given you some new, some new frames. What are you seeing in the data? Is there anything that you can share that's of interest for us to think about? We talk about the system, but we don't really have the view of the system that you now have. Can you tell us some things that might be interesting for us to understand about the development or the adapting of the system?
Rebecca Clarke [00:51:45]:
Oh yeah. There's significant adaptation that's occurring across Australia, New Zealand. So we've got a need for health care that's only increasing. We've got an aging population, we've got complex populations, high level of comorbidities and chronic disease. We talked about equity challenges of delivering care in complex environments. So whether it be emergency, acute, sub acute outpatients is the, the demand is ever increasing and patients are becoming more unwell. So we're seeing definite changes in the way that care is delivered. So huge focus, hospital in the home, care at home, virtual care. I spend a lot of my time in that world actually. Hospital in the home and virtual care talking about ways that we depressurise hospitals. What are the mechanisms where we can't necessarily build more beds all the time? What are the ways in the. That we can deliver care that is person centered? The hospital and the home community and virtual care community are such a lovely giving community of people that I've found within healthcare because they all want to share. It's changing and it's growing and it's moving so rapidly. So that is one of the big, if not the biggest change that I can see occurring in healthcare currently.
Sharee Johnson [00:53:09]:
And it's an incredible story, isn't it, that nine CEOs got together 30 years ago and said, what's happening in your paddock? Is it the same as mine? And that it's continued for 30 years and that you now have 200 plus members in the Health Roundtable. What's the benefit of that? What surprised you as you've learned about that? Because I think that's another assumption that I hear very regularly is that people don't think that health administrators, executives know about what other places are doing and that we are reinventing the wheel a lot of the time, time in healthcare. And I think there's good support for that argument. But I also suspect that given the view you now have, that you're finding that actually there's a lot of cross talk and a lot of inquiry and curiosity.
Rebecca Clarke [00:53:56]:
Yeah, I think it's important to note that obviously all healthcare services are unique. They all have unique aspects, but fundamentally the same things are occurring within those organizations. And that Health Roundtable is this beautiful place. So Health Roundtable has lots of data, but it's not about performance, it's about identifying variation. So it's a really safe place for people across healthcare to come together and have open conversations about where they're either doing really well and share innovation so that other people can adapt and change and utilize that. So they're not reinventing the wheel, but also to learn where things didn't go well and what they should avoid or what they could avoid. And the incredible conversations, cross collaborative conversations where people feel heard, you know, people feel this because we've got very bespoke data sets where you can bring people from imaging together. So radiographers, radiologists together to have these cross collaborative conversations where they really don't have those opportunities necessarily to connect and talk about it. So I think the same with nursing, the same with other aspects like around well being, you know, allied health. So there's all these beautiful communities that can come together. So obviously there are other mechanisms, conferences, colleges, sometimes they can be really, not all the time, but research focused. And this is this way that you can come together and look at what are those things that are working with organizations that aren't research, where they're innovations that are having impact, positive impact for patients, you know, significant change, but just a really safe collaborative way to share information. It's a very powerful, very incredible thing to be able to provide both the Australian and the New Zealand healthcare community.
Sharee Johnson [00:55:47]:
You look like you feel hopeful and energised and optimistic.
Rebecca Clarke [00:55:50]:
Is that how you feel yeah, absolutely. There are incredible things going on within organizations and we get the privilege of saying you're an exemplar. You often have all the internal pressures, ministry pressures, around targets of hospital acquired complications or. But sometimes where this deliverer of fantastic news to say, I know that you feel like you're not doing well on this, but actually you're an exemplar. Across Australia, it's amazing to be able to share that everyone is collectively working for the same common purpose and that's to provide good, quality care to our patients and our communities and to reduce harm. I do feel optimistic. I feel that there are significant challenges on our healthcare services, but again, people are finding extremely unique ways to overcome those challenges and inventive ways to be able to either work together or deliver care in a really different way that still. Still achieving the same outcome.
Sharee Johnson [00:56:51]:
And is there a mechanism or multiple mechanisms within the Health Roundtable where people who are the exemplars can demonstrate is that alive and well in the Health Roundtable, where people are actively demonstrating or that you can talk to the data and say, hospital X has trialed this innovation and this is the outcome and we want you all to know about it. So you might like to also trial it or learn or test it. Is that kind of, kind of thing happening?
Rebecca Clarke [00:57:17]:
Oh, absolutely. So we have those mechanisms both in webinars, so virtually, but also in person events. So the foundational aspects of Health Roundtable is. Yes, we're a data analytics service. Yes, we have data, but the story behind the data is the important thing. Start assist data, unless there's a story that sits with it, we don't have the context always for the data. One of the foundational aspects, as if you're part of Health Roundtable, we want you to share innovations and they're meaningful and they connect with people because their stories. Everyone in healthcare is there really for a purpose. I would think most people, social impact, improved patient care, supporting staff, wellbeing, whatever the element is. Yeah, sharing those stories and connecting with people and giving them the tools to take away to sort of help support them, implement the same or similar thing. So, yeah, we have a huge library of innovations that sit within our platform. Over 500 innovations from across health services, Australia, New Zealand, across all different aspects. So they're all there to share.
Sharee Johnson [00:58:21]:
I think this is really exciting news for a lot of people because people may not know that Health Roundtable exists for a start. And to talk about big data, it's pretty dry, isn't it? And you've just pointed exactly. To it's the story that the data tells. And I have really supported the wellbeing index for a number of years because of this need for good Australian and New Zealand data. I think a lot of what we do is reference data from America. Even when we're talking about burnout or moral injury or those kinds of things, we're often referencing data from. From America, sometimes from the UK or other places. I think it really gives us, you know, just a bit more depth, a bit more credibility, a bit more really relevant stuff to work with if we can tell the stories of the data or if we can say, what does the data mean? And you describe some of how that's happening. I think so.
Rebecca Clarke [00:59:13]:
I was talking about this actually at my daughter's soccer game to two doctors that I used to work with. It was like, how did you transition from an emergency nurse into essentially metadata? So obviously that's a fairly adrenaline seeking form of nursing or medicine to be involved in. And how do you transition into metadata? But I really always had a passion for maths and science as a. As a younger person, probably didn't recognize it internally as a young adult and moved away from that. In my master's public health with biostatistics and epidemiology, I really found that love again. But for me to connect with maths or data, there has to be a purpose, a reason. And I think that's sometimes how I sort of transitioned away from it, more so in my early adulthood. I recently did a course at NIDA called Influential Storytelling because it is hard to make data interesting at times, but it's only when it connects to people's hearts that it really. And whatever that heart for you is. And it depends on your audience. Right. We often talk to people about how do you connect with. If it's safety and quality, how do you connect with your clinicians, how do you make it meaningful? How do you speak to the heart of those people that you're trying to convey your message to? So is that about. Is it the patient story? How do you connect to that patient story? But if you're talking to an executive, that might be a different heartstring that you need to pull on because they've also got a range of different obligations and resourcing that you need to talk to. So you have to tell a story that's going to be meaningful for your audience. That's really important and you can do both in the same lens. So I certainly know that talking to teams about how do you find the person in the Data, how do you find that story and draw it out to the macro? And it's definitely possible because within any data set, whether it's your own internal data set that you're working with, there's always a patient at the end of that data. You can roll it up and aggregate it. But yeah, there's certainly some pretty powerful stories that I've been able to tell that are person centered, but then also speak to the executive and enable a business to decisions and policy changes to be made.
Sharee Johnson [01:01:22]:
What's the story you'd like to tell your nursing colleagues who are, you know, maybe at one of those transition points where they're feeling like, I think I've given all I've got to give in this system at this time.
Rebecca Clarke [01:01:34]:
So sometimes as a clinical nurse, you can feel fairly disempowered and it's really hard to find the time sometimes within your clinical work week to tell the story or to know where to go to find the data to tell the story. One of the beautiful things, and I learned this early, is that unless you can substantiate a claim, unless you can understand what is occurring within the system and articulate that to your leadership or management, it's going to be hard to effect change or start change. We often will shy away from those areas. So data is complex. But Health Roundtable, there's no limit to the number of people who can access it. So it's there at your fingertips. There is a lot of internal data that's available and accessible. So I think if you have a problem thinking about how you can use data to articulate that, quantify the impact, it's always available there. It's just having that bit of motivation or time making time to be able to utilize that into whatever it is. It doesn't have to be massive change, but whatever it is that you're working on, if it's a national standard committee that you're aligned to. I didn't always do this in my early career because I didn't understand the power of it and I didn't understand what management or leadership wanted. But I've certainly learned that as I've progressed through my career, how to use data in a meaningful, powerful way, how to tell the story. And I think that's important.
Sharee Johnson [01:03:10]:
I think I'm hearing this combination of we need a story to tell, we need a good story. And a story about patients is often the story, the actual interaction we have with a patient or with a colleague and supporting that with data. So the story plus the data makes Makes it more powerful.
Rebecca Clarke [01:03:26]:
Yes.
Sharee Johnson [01:03:28]:
I also can imagine that people are listening to you talking about find the data and feel like that's too daunting, that's too much, I can't do that. I think probably there's a simple version of that. Can you think of an example of just one small piece of data that might help? How can a nurse collect a little bit of data in a relatively easy, time efficient kind of way?
Rebecca Clarke [01:03:49]:
There are a number of audits that occur that are accessible, that you have to undertake. There's always patterns and stories in those. And I can think of one that was related to pressure injuries that were occurring. This is an emergency department related one. But pressure injuries that were occurring because she worked across ED and ICU and she transitioned from another hospital. So she identified that within the new hospital that she'd come to that there were all these pelvic pressure injuries that are occurring and this may apply. She just noticed this anecdotally at first and then within the audits identified that there seemed to be this high prevalence of these perfect pelvic based pressure injuries occurring. It didn't take a huge amount of evidence to show that because there was sometimes a delay to surgery, those pelvic binders were creating pressure injuries because they weren't pressure relieving pelvic binders. So that when she then identified that, she was able to show that really all they needed to do was change the pelvic binder, which was a pressure relieving device. So those people who are transitioning from edge to ICU then reduce their number of pressure injuries in the pelvic area just based on that one change. So it was anecdotal noticing at first being curious and understanding what was different at another site. So that was just a small piece of data that didn't involve a lot of research, didn't involve looking outside into big data sets.
Sharee Johnson [01:05:16]:
It's a nice example, especially in the context of how you described your career development earlier on, that these one small thing like that can open the door to oh, now I can also see this, or now I've found an ally who could help me with that. These things build on each other. So thank you for thinking of our story. Nursing as a career has such breadth for a person like me outside looking at all the different things that nurses do. Can you offer some reflection on your nursing career as it stands today? All the different things that's allowed you to do, do and be discover.
Rebecca Clarke [01:05:51]:
It is quite an incredible career to be able to transition you into different Areas so obviously like emergency primary care, public health and now into data. I'll tell a bit of a far out left story about other areas which I'm keen to mention because this is also about recalibrating and understanding where and how to recalibrate. So moving to Health Roundtable, stepping out of the operational space, working from home a lot of the time gave me more time to to work on my own self. So physically and knowing that recalibration important part for me was being outside. So I found myself doing more trail running, more mountain biking and then had challenged myself, I guess to find different ways to adapt and cope mentally. But physically, how far could I push myself and what challenges could I seek to really understand the depths of where I could go and my resilience? I don't think I would have had the opportunity to do this. I was still working where I was and this is a real chance for me to reset and do something that was for my own self. So I reached out to a very small group of people who do adventure racing. So if you don't know what adventure racing, it's a multi sport event, we run paddle bike. And one of the reasons that I was an asset was because I was a nurse and could provide medical support on the team. So I undertook a 500 kilometer adventure race, which obviously takes a huge level of resilience, which takes your healthcare related skills to support people along that journey. So I would say that the random place that nursing has also helped me, not necessarily my career, but in my recalibration and growth, has been your adventure racing.
Sharee Johnson [01:07:43]:
So you were competing and also potentially offering the medical care to people in your team at the same time?
Rebecca Clarke [01:07:48]:
Yeah, just in my team. So lots of foot care, lots of pain management, lots of coping with your ability. You made it to the end. We did make it till the end, yep.
Sharee Johnson [01:08:00]:
And what impact did it have bec on your sense of resilience? Did you discover the depths that you could go?
Rebecca Clarke [01:08:06]:
Yes, I definitely did. I definitely did discover the depths that I could go. But the challenges across that time, I still don't feel like they're sometimes anywhere near as challenging as a shift on the ward. Healthcare gives you huge levels of resilience and an understanding about working with other people, being in complex environments, understanding fatigue deeply and how to overcome that, how to be kind, how to understand when people are struggling. So there are all these amazing things that I think is important to know that yes, we are nurses, yes we are doctors, but all of these skills and assets and attributes that we have can be placed in lots of different areas, even random areas like adventure racing. So the ability to transition between different careers, different opportunities. Incredible. Because healthcare provides you and being a clinician provides you with all these attributes that sometimes you don't think are transferable, but are.
Sharee Johnson [01:09:06]:
I feel like the conversation we had about moving to metadata and this conversation about resilience and wilderness adventure, finishing our conversation on a really optimistic, hopeful note. So I'm very grateful to you for that because it's easy to get bogged down in healthcare problems. Is there anything that we've missed while we've been talking that you've noticed that you'd like to just point to before we wrap up our conversation?
Rebecca Clarke [01:09:32]:
I guess the only one thing that I'll say is that a foundational person, and I think you always look back to who are your role models and who are the people in your life that have been foundational in making you who you are. So my Omar, my Dutch grandmother, incredibly resilient woman. Amazing for many, many, many reasons. But one of the key things that she talked to me about and about change and adaptability and about remaining calm. And I'll tell you a story just briefly. She was in Papua New guinea with her husband. They forgot a bag. She ran back to get the bag. And in the meantime, this is a small light plane in Papua New Guinea. The plane took off and she was just newly married to her second husband. So she was in a small town in Papua New Guinea. Now, most people would be distressed or concerned, or she just saw it as an opportunity for an adventure. So in my life, I think I've always thought about, take a breath. There is beauty in all things, whether it presents a challenge or it's a little bit bad. Yeah. She's given me the incredible gift of taking a breath, seeing the best in the world, areas for opportunity, for adventure. So she's inspirational for me. And I think some of those things that help you with supporting system change, supporting shift and recalibration, and being brave in the world, that's a beautiful place to finish.
Sharee Johnson [01:11:00]:
Thank you so much, Bec, for all that you've shared. I think there's been a beautiful synergy between your personal experiences and your ability to notice how they're informing your professional life and the other way around. So I've had this sense listening to you, of this whole person developing, this whole person development happening as I've listened to your story. I'm deeply grateful for what you've shared. So thank you for being with us today.
Rebecca Clarke [01:11:24]:
Thanks, Sharee.
Sharee Johnson [01:11:26]:
Bec Clark is the first nurse that we've had on the podcast. I'm really deeply grateful to what she has shared. There are so many ways to be a nurse in the world. What I really love about Bec's story is this whole person element, that it's acknowledging that real things happen in our life. We have grandparents who are really important and influential that we may not even realise at the time, but later on we can still hear their voice, that we have deep, complex loss in our life, that we work in communities where we know each other's family and we have other relationships at the same time as we're being healthcare professionals. She was able to share her experiences as a clinical frontline nurse and also as a person who's looking across whole countries, New Zealand and Australia, at big data sets. And she has lots of really incredible stories of noticing data or vague variations in the data and inquiring into what's that showing about that community or that hospital that are not for sharing publicly. But I do hope that you as listeners feel encouraged to know that there are some systems and organizations that are looking at the system, that it's not a hopeless case in terms of individuals out there working their guts out and nobody really understanding or recognising what's happening at a systems level. Obviously it's complex. It's not as easy as saying, well, all the CEOs get together and talk about what they're doing in their hospitals. And it is really vital, important work. This idea of being able to be on the dance floor and also up on the balcony having a look at what's happening is what we need to understand. Complex systems change for healthcare, for providers, caregivers and for patients. I'm delighted to have had the time to talk with Bec. I think her ability to talk about pride building in remote communities would also have been a great way to have spent the whole podcast. We will follow that thread in coming episodes of this podcast. Podcast and her ability to notice for us to flag, find the right people, find your support people and flag the things that you're noticing, find the ways to articulate what your concerns are and you can do that in storytelling and with data. And the combination of both is incredibly powerful. Bec also talked about big feelings. She talked about being honest, being lonely as a clinical manager and having a sense of abandonment when you leave one workplace and go to another workplace. She really authentically showed us some deep personal, inner world understanding and experience, really reminding us to be aware of what's happening for ourselves, and also a lot of different lenses and perspectives into the world, including understanding that riding a bike down a mountain can give us a new perspective. And I hope you find something really useful in the conversation I've had today with Bec and I look forward to seeing you next week. Until then, may you be well. The content in this podcast is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical or psychological advice, diagnosis or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other question qualified healthcare professional. This podcast represents the views of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect those of any entity we work with or for.
