Sharee Johnson [00:00:13]:
Hello and welcome to Recalibrating with me, Sharee Johnson, where you'll hear healthcare professionals and others sharing their stories of recalibrating life when the unexpected happened. As a psychologist and a coach, I've been listening deeply to people's stories for 35 years, and I've come to believe two things about people. The first is, having witnessed so many incredible stories of hope, adaptability, and human capacity, I truly believe that we are all capable of so much more than we really think we are. In times of challenge, humans have demonstrated that over and over again. Here on the Recalibrating Podcast, you'll get to hear amazing stories of healthcare professionals and others pivoting, overcoming, and recalibrating their lives. The second thing that the research and my experiences as a psychologist have shown me is that humans need each other. We need people. When we have support around us, when we tell each other our stories, when we connect through through the reality of living our lives, we do so much better than when we pull back and hide what's really going on for us. Together on this podcast, we're going to unearth and amplify what helps us as humans, individually and collectively, to recalibrate in ways that help us change, grow, adapt, even surprise ourselves when life throws us a curveball. This podcast offers you the chance to be inspired and encouraged to meet the unexpected in your life with grace, skills, and a belief in your own human capacity. Life is full of opportunities to recalibrate with agency, the right mindset, the right resources, and the right community. Hello and welcome back to Recalibrating with Sharee Johnson. I'm very excited to welcome our guest today, Sue Robbins, from Vancouver in Canada. Sue has an extraordinary story of recalibrating. She's had many opportunities in her life to do that, and she reminds us in this episode of how we're really recalibrating in small ways all through the day, that we are adjusting and adapting and having to change course or change the way we think all the time. That's in fact living. Sue is a speaker and author. She has two fabulous books that we'll talk about during the episode. She is a mother of a son with Down syndrome She had breast cancer 8 or 9 years ago, and she generously shares about some of those experiences. Sue has held family leadership positions with BC Children's Hospital and the Stollery Children's Hospital in Canada. She's currently a member of the Canadian Medical Association's Patient Voice, and in her day job, she's a senior partner with her husband Mike at BirdCom, which is a creative health communications company, and they do some fabulous work with healthcare organizations and with individuals who are telling their stories. Please enjoy this conversation with Sue Robbins. Hello Sue, how are you?
Sue Robins [00:03:29]:
I'm doing pretty well, thank you.
Sharee Johnson [00:03:32]:
So lovely to see you. I love this modern age where I can talk to you in, in Vancouver just at the drop of a hat, really. It's amazing. Yes, welcome to Recalibrating with Sharee Johnson. We're going to be talking about your story, and you've had many opportunities to recalibrate in your life But I want to start with the current, what's happening right now. So you've been interacting with the healthcare system in lots of different ways, and you've written books, you're a speaker, you've done lots of things. But can you just paint a picture about your current work and what that looks like at the moment?
Sue Robins [00:04:06]:
Sure. I identify myself as a patient advocate, and I do a lot of patient engagement consulting, and I write a lot about the patient experience. So I would say it's interesting. We had— I co-own a health communications company with my husband and we had a business coach last year and he made us do a time audit. And what was interesting about that is I had to write down a diary of how I spent my time during the day for 2 weeks. And I realized most of my time is caregiving. So that 60% of my time I spend with our youngest son Aaron, who has Down syndrome. He's— Aaron's almost 23 years old. But I do a lot of driving around and managing and coordinating and filling out forms and all that type of thing. So I'd say my workday, although it's unpaid work, most of it's taken up with Aaron. And then I do, I am partner with my husband in BirdCom, our health communications company. So we meet every morning to help kind of get him organized to keep that going tickety-boo. And then I also do, as I said, my patient advocacy work, and that looks different all the time because I'm a freelancer. I don't really have a typical day. So I'd say I do things like I spoke to a couple sets of college students last month, talking to them about patient engagement and how to partner with patients. I'm giving a workshop later this month to a children's health organization to talk about using your story for advocacy reasons. Storytelling is one of the things I love to talk about. I'm a patient on the Canadian Medical Association's Patient Voice Group. They've done a great job of patient engagement nationally here in Canada alongside the physicians. So I also do that kind of patient work as well. And I do little side things with other patients. Vikram Bubber, who is a patient advocate here in British Columbia where I live, and I have just started up a Stay Human movement where we're sharing online stories of humanity in healthcare. We're trying not to be anti-AI, but we are certainly pro-human. And the idea is to put a spotlight onto the beautiful stories we know that exist in healthcare from our patient perspective. So those are, I think that's about everything. That's my CV.
Sharee Johnson [00:06:34]:
Already we get that feeling, right, of the daily recalibration that has to go on to fit all of the things together. You know, I want to say in a woman's working life. But I think that's true for all people with family and working and interest in community. So thank you for painting this picture of the juggling and the balancing that goes on and that this constant recalibrating of what's important in any moment or any day. And I do want to come back to talking about Stay Human, and we'll certainly put that in the show notes with the hashtag. It's a really exciting initiative.
Sue Robins [00:07:06]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sharee Johnson [00:07:07]:
You know, I'm with you on the pro-human part of the modern world. So you didn't just land here, you know, you learned a lot of things about healthcare over, over the whole course of your career. And, and it began when you left school as a, as a trainee, learning to be a nurse, as a trainee nurse. Can you walk us through a little bit about some of, I guess, the work stuff, but you don't have to limit it to work, the journey between thinking you might have been a nurse through until all these interesting things you do now?
Sue Robins [00:07:37]:
Yeah, it's my family, they joke that I'm half a nurse. So if somebody has a first aid problem, I might know what to do, maybe. But certainly I'm not a full professional nurse because I dropped out of nursing school, college-level program after 2 years. So I did 2 years of the 4-year program. And I, I've reflected a lot on why I dropped out, I ended up getting a degree. It was instead an English degree. So I have a degree in Shakespeare and art history, which is quite the leap if we talk about recalibration from nursing, which is very arts and math or arts and math, science and math. It's very left-brain kind of thinking in nursing. And I, I realized, I think I chose nursing for the wrong reasons. My mom is a nurse, my aunt is a nurse, and it was assumed, I believe, in my family, because I was female, that I was going to go into nursing. And I never really questioned that. I think I went along with it and agreed to it until I got into nursing school, when I realized I, I was not very good with the technical parts of nursing, especially if it involved inflicting pain on other people. So I was really bad at like giving injections and having to change wound dressings, all that kind of thing. Because I was very hesitant because I, I, I felt it so much. I couldn't like, like I had too much empathy, I think, for what I was imagining what the pain would feel like for patients, which of course you have to put that aside to be a competent professional. So and I also had like a terrible stomach. I don't know what I was thinking. Like I had to, you know, I almost passed out in the OR and they had to— I had to go around the block for a walk because I was after I watched somebody's trach getting changed and like all that type of thing, didn't sit well with me. Like I said, I couldn't figure out how to, like, be human and compassionate and empathetic, and also protect myself. I couldn't figure that out. And they never talked about this back in the '80s when I was in nursing school. And my own daughter is a pediatric nurse, kind of a funny thing. But I think she kind of, she she, she finished something that I didn't finish as her mother. And I think they have a lot more reflective practice and thinking about themselves personally and what they bring into nursing than we did in the '80s. It was very much kind of more a technician. That's what we were taught. And so I wish that I— I think I would have made a very good nurse, but I just couldn't hack it. I didn't have the stomach for it. And the last thing is, this is interesting. The real, the final straw when I ended up transferring into English was I got yelled at in the staff room by an older nurse. And there's me, little baby nurse, and an older, more senior nurse yelled at me because I had done something incorrectly that I had to go fix. And I can just remember standing there thinking, well, nobody's really allowed to yell at me except for my own mother. And so I thought, This is not okay. The whole nurses eat your young thing. I know they're trying very hard to overcome that. But it was very difficult for me. So anyways, I ended up sitting, sitting in a darkened classroom watching slides of art go by in my art history classes and, you know, learning about Shakespeare and reading a lot. And that certainly, I think suited me better. So that's my failed nurse story that I have. But I never left healthcare after that, which is kind of interesting.
Sharee Johnson [00:11:22]:
Which I want to talk with you some more about that. Just here though, there's these two identities. There's the family cultural, you know, Sue will be a nurse story. And then there's this other, you know, kind of what else might I be interested in or who else am I as that young adult? You know, who else can I be or who else do I want to be? Can you reflect a little bit on those, those, those two identities at that time?
Sue Robins [00:11:53]:
Yeah, I, I think, I think I was trying to be a good girl and do what I was supposed to do, and that's why I went into nursing. Like I said, it was kind of unspoken. Um, but if I look back, I, you know, I spent a lot of time in the library, and I got the English and Social Studies degree in high school— or degree, uh, award in high school, uh, when I was in grade 12. Um, So when I look back, it didn't even make any sense that I went into nursing except that it was an obligation. And I can say, I'm sure my parents aren't going to listen to this. But my parents were very, very unhappy when I transferred into English. And in fact, they cut off paying for my tuition and I had to move out of the house. Because I know this happens nowadays. But certainly, the arts are not as valued as science is, I'd say. And they thought it was a waste of time to get an English degree. And that was a real shame too. I think that was— but I have to admit to myself, that was also very brave of me to do at age 18 years old, to defy— that was the first time I'd ever really defied my parents, I think. And so I really stepped into myself, I think, in that whole thing. My whole life kind of fell apart and I had to start all over again at that very young age. But I always had a love for healthcare. Yeah, but just not as a clinician. I wasn't meant to be a clinician.
Sharee Johnson [00:13:21]:
That's why your story is so interesting and important for us here in this, you know, series of conversations, I think. So, because— and that expression you just used, that I stepped into myself— there's a lot of healthcare workers in the world, in my experience at least, who are doing what they were supposed to do. They, you know, perhaps not their parents, sometimes it's their teachers or their education, you know, they're smart at science. And so there's this cultural story of, you know, well, you would want to be a doctor, for instance, or you would want to be a psychologist or a physiotherapist or a nurse because that's, you know, that's the track that you're on with your evident strengths or skills. Um, and perhaps instead of saying, you know, do you want to be insert a doctor, we might say, what can you imagine yourself doing? Or, you know, some more open question. So, um, you found this beautiful way of bringing healthcare and communication and English and love of language in storytelling together in your work. Now, in between, you've done lots of different things. You've worked in policy making, almost, in hospitals, really, and programming for families and patients as they come in and out of healthcare. Can you share a little bit about those experiences perhaps in terms of what you've learned or how they've helped you recalibrate who you can be, that you can bring these different parts of yourself together?
Sue Robins [00:14:47]:
Yeah, I've, um, yeah, I, I, when I say I've never left healthcare, I think that I, I've had so many different positions in healthcare that my first book is called Bird's Eye View, and it's not just my, um, oh yeah, okay, yay, there it is.
Sharee Johnson [00:15:03]:
Yes. We still have as part of our Recalibrate program with all of our fabulous—
Sue Robins [00:15:08]:
That's so great. Thank you for that. It's not really just about my patient caregiving experience. It is also about my experience working in healthcare as a non-clinician. So I worked as a unit clerk. I don't know if you call that— Yeah, well, that's a ward clerk. Ward clerk. Yeah. When I worked as a nursing attendant, which was when I was going to get my English degree, I was actually working as a nursing attendant at a nearby nursing home that was for veterans. And I remember I used to— and this was in, again, the late '80s, where we still wore white uniforms with the white nylons and the white shoes and everything. Nowadays, folks are a bit more casual, wear scrubs at least. But I remember having to run over from my shift to go to class in the afternoon over at university to sit in my Shakespeare classes in my nursing uniform. So It's, it's kind of a, it's a, I just, it's a funny thing, the arts and science, and I think about it a lot. I did work for, oh gosh, I did staffing, which meant that I had to call nurses at 6 in the morning. This was before they had everything electronic. They had people phoning them if folks were sick to try to find a new nurse to come in to work. I did that for a while, had to start work at 5:30 AM or something. I also, I was a secretary. I ran a group for unit clerks where I chaired a group where the unit or the ward clerks met every month. So in all these things, I kind of started accumulating a lot of, like, I don't know, people skills, I think, and communication skills. And I did move eventually to our Department of Health, where I worked in, weirdly, costing and funding. That's where I ended up. Working there. And but it was a really great experience because it helped me understand more system level of how decisions are made in healthcare. I think it was really good for me to work there to get a sense of that. I think I worked like if I think about it, we're talking to you almost every kind of level of healthcare there is from the ministry on down, like being a nursing attendant is a really hard job. So I can, I can tell you that that's kind of like you're doing stuff that nobody else wants to do in a facility. And I did learn a lot through that. So I, I don't regret any of it. And it's so funny, when you look back, it's a puzzle, right, that you piece together. And it's a mashup of a whole bunch of things that brought me to this place where I do, you know, speaking and writing, consulting about the patient experience. And this was all before I actually became a patient or caregiver. I had all these various experiences in healthcare.
Sharee Johnson [00:17:51]:
Yeah, I'm really struck in this part of the story about how you were really up close and personal to suffering and to struggle to, you know, really building not only, um, maybe your communication skills, but really building your compassion. And, and, you know, you said before that thing about how I didn't— couldn't work out as a young potential nurse how to hold, look after my own self and feel empathy. And we know now from Tanya Singer's work, um, in Germany that we do— to feel empathy, we do activate our pain networks. And there are skills that we can learn to manage that, that hopefully, um, Ella, your daughter, is— was taught, and our health professionals are being taught. So I just, um, noticed your other book as well, just while we're talking about books. So your other book, Ducks in a Row, which does describe a lot of, of your actual— your jobs and your experiences in health. So people want to know more about Sue's, um, all the bits and pieces that she's done in terms of her work, those are two great resources for you to learn some more. So I wonder if you can tell us a little bit more about patient advocacy and what that means. I think that's an important recalibration that we all need to do in health. And you have some personal stories and some wisdom on that to share with us. I want to invite the listeners, as they're listening to us talk, to think about what they know about patient advocacy or what they might like to review or reflect on or, or, you know, ask a question about that. We make a lot of assumptions about what patients need as as the caregivers. And I think, you know, we forget, or it's not ordinary practice necessarily, to ask the patient what's important to them or what they value or what they'd like to do next, or to really bring them in or elevate their decision-making for their life. So can you share with us, maybe, you know, in light of recalibrating, what do you think are important things that you've learned about patient advocacy and patients?
Sue Robins [00:19:49]:
Yeah, and definitely until I became a caregiver when my son Aaron was born 23 years ago and diagnosed with Down syndrome, it really immersed me in healthcare in a totally different way that I had not experienced at the work level. Although I often said I would've made a good kind of spiritual care visitor type person. I was really good at sitting with people and listening to them and holding hands and all those softer points of healthcare, I was actually very good at when I worked in the hospital. And yeah, you're right. I think some of it— empathy is like, I don't know, it's very, very important to me. I'm always— I always think I'm scratching around for it when I go to healthcare settings. Any kind of like a smile or eye contact or any of that kind of thing is really, really important to me. And I think it's because when people are suffering, that's what they need the most. And I certainly found that out when Aaron was born and I became involved. I was in a family group when he went to some rehab services and I joined that. And then I got hired by the children's hospital to help engage the voices of other families at the decision-making tables. I always think advocacy in healthcare is kind of a dirty word. I don't know what it is here in Canada. We're expected to this is very Canadian as well, be very reserved, polite, say we're sorry, and basically shut up and be compliant. Like, that's what's expected. I think particularly of female patients, there's an expectation of that. And what I realized when Aaron was born as his mom is that I— he was a baby. And so I had to speak up on his behalf all the time. And this was in a system that didn't necessarily value babies who were born with Down syndrome or intellectual disabilities. And so I became very protective, I think, of his own experience in the hospital to make sure that he got the healthcare that, you know, he had a right to. And of course, that went on to the education system, and now he's an adult. So I think I was a very good mama bear, and I had to learn that the hard way. There's a lot of fighting here in Canada. As far as funding and services. And it's always a struggle. And it is definitely a squeaky wheel thing. I don't, I don't like speaking up. I've written before about being a reluctant advocate. I don't like conflict. But we have to, like, we don't have a choice, or your child is going to miss out on a lot. So I think I learned that from Aaron. But then I got breast cancer 9 years ago. It's 9 years since my diagnosis. And everyone's like, oh, you're going to be such a great advocate for yourself at point of care, you know, because you've done this for Aaron and worked in the system all these years. And to be truthful, I was terrible. I was like a little mouse, I would describe myself. I was so terrified. And I think I was scared of dying and, you know, causing pain to my children. And like, it was all mixed up that way that I didn't speak up for myself. In any way, shape, or form during cancer care. So it's interesting that identities— I think that one, I kind of— I lost that one. I put— I totally shed it when I became a patient myself. And I've thought a lot about it. And I think it's because I, as a caregiver, I kind of hide behind Aaron like he's the guy in the front and I'm behind him. And it's a bit of a protective thing for me, actually, the mama bear role. But when you have something like cancer, you're literally— I had breast cancer— literally stripped bare in many, many situations and have no dignity involved with the various, you know, biopsies and treatments and mammograms and all that goes along with it. And I just think it made me very, very fragile again. So I lost that particular identity. But then after it was all done and I'm not back to normal, I haven't recovered. I still see my therapist once a month, the same woman I saw when I started my cancer treatment. But I went back to the advocacy part. But I got to tell you, I still don't talk about my cancer experience that much. I've written about it, but I will not get up in front of a crowd and talk about it. It's interesting how the same role can change depending what's going on.
Sharee Johnson [00:24:28]:
Oh, absolutely. And I've, you know, you've written some very beautiful, tender pieces about your cancer, some of your cancer experiences. And I, I'm noticing myself that some of my experience too in the caregiver role. So for people who know my work and have read my book and so on, they know that my husband Tim died of cancer 14 years ago and I have really not spoken much about that, those experiences either. They very much motivate and drive the work that I do, but those personal— there's very personal experiences, and I was in the role of advocate or carer or caregiver. So it's complex in terms of honoring your own experience and the other people's experience and what they— the people close to you might feel if you start sharing publicly some of those times. I think you're pointing to something really important for us to notice, Sue, in terms of being able to advocate here but not there. Or, and also that as humans, even when we're an advocate, we're still human. Even if we look fierce and like the mama bear and we're articulate and standing up and fighting, we still need when we're vulnerable, someone to do that for us.
Sue Robins [00:25:48]:
Yeah, that's— it is interesting. Yeah, I remember someone say I was a, uh, somebody online said I was, um, a tireless advocate, and I'm like, no, I'm actually not. So perhaps there's a persona that we put forward so that we look like we're strong, but in fact, behind that, it I felt very fragile and vulnerable, like literally, like I, I, like I felt like I was all, all my skin was stripped off or something. I don't know how to describe it exactly, but it's funny because I remember being in my oncologist's office and sitting on the treatment table and having the gown on. They don't even give you cloth gowns anymore here. We get paper gowns, which are terrible. But anyways, I was wearing the gown and she had sent her resident in instead. So this young man came in to deal with me first before she came in at the very end. And he actually asked me, what do you do for a living? Which was weird because nobody really asked me about myself. I was just a very generic breast cancer patient to them. It wasn't even a very exciting kind of cancer. I could tell that, you know, it's a dime a dozen. Breast cancer is so common. So anyway, she said, what do you do for a living? And I explained to him a little bit about my speaking and my writing. He said to me, oh my gosh, he said, we need you to advocate. He said, that's what he said. You have to keep speaking up. And I could tell he was like struggling in some way, poor guy. And I'm like, I'm like, me, you need to speak up. He's like, he said to me, they'll listen to you more than they'll listen to us. And I actually thought that was like that. I thought that was very, very sad. Obviously he had maybe perhaps tried to speak up and he hadn't been seen or heard. But there I am sitting in my paper gown with no clothes on and and he felt, as in the system, that I had more power than he did. And so it just really speaks to the fact that neither patients nor clinicians are listened to or engaged at the higher levels, and that, that is frustrating to us because we, none of us feel seen or heard. And it also made me realize we have more in common than we have differences. Certainly he had similar struggles I did, but, but then I also thought, okay, that's not really fair to put that on me when I'm sitting here with a whole bunch of baggage that I'm expected to speak up to kind of change the health system world. And that's something I've struggled with over the years. And I realized it's actually not my responsibility to do that. I do what I can do. But I— that changing the world is kind of off the table. I mean, I might touch somebody's heart with some of my stories. And that's really the most I should expect. Otherwise, I'm going to set myself up for failure. Things are going the wrong way, Sheree, as far as I'm concerned here in Canada. It's not— there is healthcare change, but it's for the worse. It's not for the better. So, you know, I never would have imagined, you know, 15 years ago that, you know, you talk about quality improvement, all that kind of thing. But since COVID things have really taken a spiral down. I think we've regressed a lot. So in order to keep this work up, I have to just believe it's one conversation at a time, one person at a time, and take it from there because system change just seems way out of touch.
Sharee Johnson [00:29:08]:
So, yeah, I think that's a very genuine struggle. I try and keep in mind Don Berwick when I feel like that because he's at the Health Improvement Institute and I think he's been a very long time arguing for quality and safety and improvement systemically. And when I have those times, which I certainly have them too, of 15 years, really, is there any kind of evidence any impact after 15 years. And I think, well, it's a many voices collective and it's a kind of infinite game that we're all trying to build on each other. And, and there are no immediate pieces of evidence in a lot of this work that show us that, okay, that this is an effect of my— this is a cause and effect thing. I did this and we got that. It's a complex place that we're working in that it's hard to see. Sometimes.
Sue Robins [00:30:01]:
Yes. And there's some tiny little wins. And I think when you get them, you have to hang on to them for dear life. Like, that's what that— but also, yeah, I love what you say, the infinite game, because I— somebody said to me, and I really believe this to be true, it's a generational thing. I think about just going to Australia, having a good chance to go there and visiting the Opera House and learning about the history behind how it took generations to build it. And I think of that often. I think about how really we're passing something on, especially now that I'm getting older. And I do my best to pass the mic backwards to folks behind me, to the younger people who will bring things along. So I think, yeah, not thinking it's my responsibility to change the healthcare system. I think I thought that for a really long time, that I wanted to change the world for the better, which kind of a— I don't know, maybe it's egotistical to think that. But if you have the ability to do it, like I can write, I can speak, like there's certain things. So there is a lot of pressure on patients, I think, to do that, to speak up. And what I wish is that we had safer spaces where we could speak up in a safe way, whether that is at point of care in a clinic room or it's around a boardroom table. And I think that's something that I push for very strongly. That it's the safe spaces that we need the professionals to help create those safe spaces for us to be able to speak up. Yeah.
Sharee Johnson [00:31:30]:
Oh, so many places that we could go, Sue. I'm trying to contain my—
Sue Robins [00:31:34]:
You got me all excited.
Sharee Johnson [00:31:37]:
Exactly. So some of the doctors tell me that we shouldn't say safe space. We should say brave space.
Sue Robins [00:31:44]:
Okay.
Sharee Johnson [00:31:45]:
I think both of these things are relevant because we need each other to create the spaces you're describing so we can be brave. So, you know, we need safe space so we can be brave. I think, you know, talking about The Infinite Game, Simon Sinek says that courage comes from outside, that when other people are making the conditions for us, we can be courageous. So that's something I don't know if I entirely agree with that, but I think about this thing of what enables us to be courageous when, and that sort of comes to this too, that you're talking about, that I can be an advocate for Aaron, but I couldn't be an advocate for myself when I was in a, you know, a very different position. So, you know, they come together somehow. I think what comes first, I'm not really sure. And to your point of, you know, feeling like I'm only making a small difference, or if I touch somebody or, you know, make a difference for one person, I think when we use our voice, we help other people use their voice. And so, you know, hopefully somebody listening to this feel hears you and thinks, well, I could speak up for somebody who's got breast cancer, for instance.
Sue Robins [00:32:51]:
I—
Sharee Johnson [00:32:51]:
when Tim was very sick, I was fiercely advocating for him in that caregiver role, but my sister was doing a lot of the research and the investigating, and the, you know, she was supporting me. So I always think of these circles around circles around circles that, you know, I was in a circle with him, taking care of him and trying to stay with what he needed she was— she and a couple of others were kind of around me trying to check in with what I needed. And, you know, those, those circles I think are important. Lets keep moving from atient advocacy into. llala Oh yes. So I wonder, Sue, if you can tell us, um, about some of the— we're touching on it now— the mental shifts and the reframes that you've needed to make. I'm curious about when you were noticing that you couldn't advocate for yourself, what did you do? Was there somebody that helped you?
Sue Robins [00:33:58]:
Um, I would have to say my daughter. Who was a second-year nursing student. She was 19 when I was diagnosed with breast cancer and living in a different province. She flew in when I was getting ready for surgery to have my surgery, and she stayed with me to look after me for the few days afterwards. And I remember one thing Ella did that was really helpful is they give you all these pamphlets. I don't know. Still, they give you tons and tons of— everyone gives you a pamphlet, all the different people. I think I counted, I went to 5 different health professionals before I actually got to the point of having surgery for my partial mastectomy. Anyway, so I didn't look at any of those pamphlets. It's funny, I'm a writer and communications person. I couldn't bear to look at anything. I just kept collecting them and I had a file of them. And Ella came and you talk about information with like with your sister. She came in the night before my surgery. She went through all my pamphlets and she pulled out the ones that I needed to know for the next day, like just what I needed to know. The next step they talk about, like, go as far as your headlights will take you in a car, right? So she was, she was doing that. She did that for me and that was very helpful. She helped me afterwards. I had bad side effects after the surgery. And, and she certainly helped keep me calm. And but then I realized how unfair that was for my young daughter to have to come and look after her mom that way. Like, I still feel actually guilty about it. But I mean, she did it and she certainly did it willingly and was very competent. And no surprise, she's a wonderful nurse now. She works in pediatrics.
Sharee Johnson [00:35:48]:
I've mentioned to you before that I did some training with a lawyer here in Australia to be what I thought would be a— I was wanted to be a patient advocate. So I was a psychologist, I had a counseling practice, doing other things, but I went to do this, you know, legal— learning about the legalities of being a patient advocate, to be a paid patient advocate by families who are in whatever situation in the health system. And the lawyer who was running that course was really pretty lambasted in the media. The medical representatives, the doctors from, uh, you know, the various doctor organizations— they were representing the organizations, not necessarily their own view, but they were saying to her very plainly in private, we agree with you, patients do need advocates, but we are their advocates as doctors. We will advocate for our patients, and you are preying on vulnerable people who are sick. And then they were on national media saying exactly that. And so she stopped providing the course that she was providing and stopped, in fact, trying to be a paid advocate, patient advocate, which I think was just incredibly sad. She, she had come to that through family experiences herself as well, and there are very few paid patient advocates in Australia now. I don't know about other countries. So this, you know, that, that kind of political stoush had a clear winner and a clear loser in, in, in that example. And I guess it really brought home to me how complex it is, this idea of representing another person, and this challenge for whether that should be paid work or not. This sort of assumption that people can have good advocacy from their doctor, which I think they often can. I'm not sure that I think they always can now that I know how much stress and pressure doctors are under, having worked with them for the last 12 or 13 years. And to assume that everybody, even people that are embedded in functional, well, healthy families don't necessarily have somebody that can be coming with them to all their appointments and so on. It becomes a full-time job when there's a medical crisis that's a chronic illness or has ongoing treatment like cancer often does have. So I think this question of advocacy and this need when we're vulnerable to have somebody in our corner with us is a really important one. And my vision has opened up a lot. Having worked with doctors, I think they often need an advocate themselves as well.
Sue Robins [00:38:17]:
Right.
Sharee Johnson [00:38:17]:
And sometimes I call myself a doctor advocate. This question of advocacy, I wonder if there's another word or if there— what are we frightened about? When I've had an advocate with me, I'm so grateful to have had somebody, you know, beating my drum and joining their voice with mine or giving voice to me when I can't give voice. I don't know if there's anything you want to comment in there.
Sue Robins [00:38:40]:
Yeah, I mean, like I said, that word, I think, in Canada is a dirty word. Sometimes I say when we're actually actively in campaigns, I call myself an activist, which is different than advocacy because that means you're, you know, you're writing to your government official, you're going to town halls and asking questions, like you're actually actively doing things. So, um, so the kind of advocacy I think you're talking about is like the at-the-point-of- care. The fact having somebody with— I mean, that, I think that helps everybody. That helps the professionals. That helps us with like, you know, when they give so much information, you've got somebody else there that can write things down, that can help us ask questions. And I wonder why people feel threatened by that. I think here in Canada, there's a lot of stay in your lane. People are— professions are told to stay in their lane. I'd say I've heard physicians say that they speak for patients, they understand patients' needs. I've had nurses tell me the same thing. And I've also had social workers tell me the same thing. So there's a whole lot of people that say they speak for patients and that they're patient-centered. But I would kind of temper that. I would say in response to that, that really patients are all different. Like, we're not monoliths, right? So even if you're patient-centered, everybody has different needs about what matters to them. And I think it's important for people if they don't have those brave spaces, and I'm going to steal that. I think that that's a good one, you know, to speak up for whatever reason. I think having somebody along their side is important. That actually would be a good job for me. Like I said, I'm good at sitting with people and listening and holding hands and stuff, but I don't think it's an actual profession, right? It's only if you're lucky enough to have family and friends to be able to do that with you. And I wonder how many people enter healthcare alone and, you know, how it affects, you know, the quality of the care they get. And I worry sometimes health professionals are quite defensive because they feel so passionately about the work that they do. And if somebody speaks up that's contrary to something perhaps they have to say, that they, they, people don't like that very much. And It slows down the efficiency in the system as well, which I know in Canada very much our system's built on efficiency, getting as many patients through as you possibly can. But I think having an advocate would actually help everybody involved. It would make the professional's job easier too. But it's a funny thing. There's a lot of power that's involved with healthcare, a lot. And it's funny that that resident felt powerless. And he thought I had more power than he did. Yeah. And my paper gown with no clothes on underneath, like, it's just like ludicrous. I don't know who holds the power up in the ivory tower somewhere, I think. Yeah.
Sharee Johnson [00:41:35]:
Well, I think, yeah, I mean, I've had conversations often with people where I think, you know, the politics of power is with the politicians in some ways in terms of funding and the way our systems are set up. So, you know, that's been one of the complete mind shifts for me that I thought the doctors had power, and the doctors very often don't feel like they have power, is what I would say now. That's been a very big shift in the way that I think about things. If you're reflecting on all of this for yourself and you're thinking about what has been— what are the tools or the resources or the supports that I know now that I do call up after all of these experiences when I know that I've got to make one of those shifts, when I've got to adjust my thinking or adjust where I'm putting my energy? What are the things that have helped? What have been useful?
Sue Robins [00:42:25]:
Well, I read a lot. I think I try to understand other points of view, and I think art is really great for that, whether it's film or TV or books. So instead of just thinking about my own perspective, so it gives me ideas. I like to have the landscape of what's going on. So I think that's why I do that reading of stories.
Sharee Johnson [00:42:48]:
And I've written—
Sue Robins [00:42:50]:
I think I'll get to you. I think I'm getting to your answer. But I have read some very good physician books, books written by physicians. I think it's good for me to understand their stories and they to understand patient stories too. And I wish that there was more kind of two-way communication that way, that we understood each other's stories. I think, I think We're better together. I always believe that to be true. So when I've had changes in my life, I'd say it's so funny. I've been also divorced. So I kind of had some of these are forced changes. It's not something that I've actually done purposely that I wanted to change, but I moved provinces, which is like, was actually a really big deal to move and start up again when you're in your 50s. That was challenging as well. You know, my baby was diagnosed with Down syndrome and. And then I got cancer. And so all these things were kind of external things that forced me to recalibrate. But I'd say my number one thing people always ask where my biggest help has come from, they often say, what professional helped you the most? And I hate to say this, and it's kind of cheeky, and it's not been professionals. It's been what has been medicalized as being called peer support, but what I would call friendship. Particularly with other mothers who have kids with disabilities. So people who have been through the same path as me, I think that's so powerful. It doesn't need to be, you know, other moms, like having a group of people or a person or two that you're able to text when things are going sideways and who understand without you having to explain is such a powerful thing. So you know, over the years, I know when Aaron was born, I didn't go back to work full time at the Department of Health. I ended up freelance writing because I was able to set my own hours. He had— let people think kids with Down syndrome, it's just an intellectual disability. But there's a lot of health concerns, especially early on in life, and then later on in life with Alzheimer's. So he— I had taken him to lots and lots of appointments, and he had surgeries and all that kind of thing. So I couldn't physically actually go back to full-time work. So I had to switch. And so I ended up freelance writing, which I love doing. Certainly took a financial hit big time, I have to say, that way, because typically one of the— if you have two people in the household, one of them has to be the caregiver and drop out of work. So, but I watched other moms. That's what I did is I saw other moms. And I can't tell you, most of us in the Down syndrome world have had a career change because of this reason. I've seen many, many moms switch over to say, be in the education system so that their hours of work would be the same as their children's because we struggle with getting childcare for our kids and our kids don't get accepted in the daycare and stuff. So, we need flexible work in order to drop them off and pick them up from school. So, I've watched them be very creative and innovative in how they built their life., so they're available for their children. And, and so I think that one set of folks I've, I've learned from are other moms, like, very, very strongly.
Sharee Johnson [00:46:00]:
And you haven't named it, but I can hear in, in your talking about this question of what do I value, or what's important here, or, you know, I don't know, maybe the question is who can I be, or who do I want to be, something like that. In— is, is there a, is there a a regular— is this— is there something that you ask yourself, some touchstone or some, some place that you call on to try and orient what to do when these, when these moments are happening?
Sue Robins [00:46:30]:
Um, I've been taking, um, I've been trained as a facilitator for ACT. Is that something you have in Australia? It's— well, I know that's a treatment therapy.
Sharee Johnson [00:46:40]:
Therapy, yeah. And in coaching we call it Often acceptance and commitment training.
Sue Robins [00:46:43]:
So yes, training.
Sharee Johnson [00:46:45]:
Yes. Yeah.
Sue Robins [00:46:46]:
Stephen Hayes's work. Yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. And I, I, I've learned a lot about that. In fact, I was at a mom's group last night about it. And, um, you know, the acceptance part, I think we cause a lot of our own suffering because things are one way, but we wish they were another way and the suffering is in between. So the acceptance of the way things are, I think, is very, very helpful. And I know in the disability world, it's a tough one, because, I mean, Aaron's 23 now. So I think I'm further along the line for acceptance. But when he was born, the baby I expected was not the baby I got. And so really, there was like probably 10 years of struggle with accepting and getting to stop trying to fix him, which also gets pushed a lot on families to go to all the therapies, you know, early intervention, like all that kind of stuff. And in fact, I realized when he was about 10, like, the dude, he doesn't need fixing at all. He's totally fine the way he is. Like, he is who he is. And he's supposed to be that way. Like, disability is just a natural part of the human fabric. So, but it, believe me, it took me a long time to get to that. So I think the acceptance and staying in the moment, I know, I know, you know, all this, Sharee, so it seems silly what I'm telling you, but You know, like centering yourself in the present moment instead of going backwards or forwards is helpful. And I think a lot about quotes, probably because I'm a writer. But even last night we were talking about feelings. ACT talks a lot about feelings and the fact that all feelings are okay. Like, there's— it's very human to have feelings. That's the human condition. And how we often try to push away the harder feelings. And they have this image of the beach ball where I was trying to push the beach ball down all the time and it always pops back up in some way. So, you know, just thinking about feelings and I'm a very feeling-y person. I'm very— that's like I wave my arms and hands around like I'm very dramatic and stuff. But there are certain feelings I struggle with, like anger and sadness are difficult feelings for me. But there's this great quote from a poet who actually recently died of cancer just last year, Andrea Gibson, her name is. She's a spoken word poet from the States. And there's a great film about her on Netflix. But she says, whatever you are feeling, name it love, she says. And I think about that a lot. And so as opposed to judging how we're feeling at the time when things go hard, if we can just think about it as being love, I don't know, there's just something very calming about it. To me. So I love that whenever you're feeling, name it love. And then another quote, of course, that, you know, from Rilke, I think, how you say the name properly, another poet said, it's let everything happen to you, beauty and terror, just keep going. And no feeling is final. So the idea of you're having a feeling right now that it will pass, it doesn't feel like it at the time. So I think a lot of my touchstones are Interestingly, I'm talking to you around the emotional part, which is the part that I struggled with when I was in nursing. So just to keep myself kind of centered and grounded, I hope— my gosh, that was like 40 years ago. I hope that I've learned to do that by now. But it took a lot of bumps along the road to— and certainly I still have a lot of anxiety and I get nervous. I got social anxiety. Like, I'm not perfect in any way, but but just staying in the moment and thinking about acceptance of all kinds of feelings has been quite helpful for me.
Sharee Johnson [00:50:27]:
I'm noticing listening to you, Sue, the joy I feel in your practice that you are practicing and your effort to name the feeling, the emotion. And thank you for those two beautiful quotes. We'll put all of these things in the show notes. You're reminding me while you're talking that I've learned about Anne Lamott from you. Right. Yeah. Some of her wisdom around, you know, I think when it comes to writing, she says, just write, start writing.
Sue Robins [00:50:58]:
Right. Get your butt in the chair. Butt in the chair. That's all writing actually is.
Sharee Johnson [00:51:02]:
Right. And maybe that's all life actually is.
Sue Robins [00:51:05]:
Show up, keep showing up and give it a go. Yeah.
Sharee Johnson [00:51:10]:
Yeah. And, and you're, it's also having me, I've had joy of meeting your son Aaron, of course, when you were in Australia quite a few years ago now. Um, and he— Aaron is an actor, and, and, uh, the joy of seeing him in the shows that he's acted in— I can't remember the proper name of the chicken movie.
Sue Robins [00:51:26]:
Just Chicken. It's called Chicken. Chicken the short film.
Sharee Johnson [00:51:29]:
Yes, in the short film. So, um, you know, these opportunities and this, this thing of, you know, continuing to be in life, to be active, actively in life. And, and one of my meditation teachers says, if you fight with reality, you will lose.
Sue Robins [00:51:46]:
That's good.
Sharee Johnson [00:51:47]:
I like that. Very powerful sentence. So that speaks to your acceptance that you're talking about. You have 3 kids and 2 grandkids. Actually, you have 5 kids you were talking to me about before.
Sue Robins [00:51:57]:
So that— oh, I've got 2 stepsons too. Yes. Yeah, that's right. My husband and I have 5 altogether.
Sharee Johnson [00:52:03]:
So all these, um, these other people— so lovely to see the photo earlier of your two little people, their grandchildren. What's, what's this phase of life in terms of thinking about, you know, wanting to be with the little people and, and, uh, you know, traveling across the country to see where your kids and grandkids are? And I think you've even had a son in America some of the time.
Sue Robins [00:52:23]:
I'm not sure if he's still there. Yes, no, he's still— unfortunately— well, not for him, it's good. That's the place he needs to be right now. So he's a musician, my eldest son, and he lives in Los Angeles.
Sharee Johnson [00:52:35]:
And so what's the recalibrating required there for? What are the skills or the resources that have been useful to you?
Sue Robins [00:52:41]:
The transferable skills, I guess we'd call them. Well, it's interesting when your kids grow up, as you know, your, your kids, I think, are a little bit younger than mine, but it changes your, your relationship with them changes. And I can remember when Ella became an adult and she was living at home before she moved out is I thought to myself, I have to treat her as an adult. And I realized how much I kind of bossed her around as a girl when she was 17. Then suddenly she's 18. I realized I shouldn't be doing that so much anymore. And so really that shift, I think, I think for each of them, it's different. I mean, Isaac is very far away. He's very independent. He's 32. He's been on his own since he was 20. He was moved down to LA. He's married. He's a successful musician. He goes on tour all the time. I, I just, I guess I, I try to make sure I keep in touch. I think that's important. I write letters and I make sure I see him once a year. It has become more difficult with what's going on in the US, certainly. But he does come up here to tour, so I'm able to see him. So I just think there's a lot of identity shifting when our kids get older. And then when Ella went into nursing, it was interesting because I was in nursing, but, and I actually worked at the children's hospital that she works at now. That's where I worked in family engagement. And we started up a council and, you know, and it's still going strong even 15 years later. So I know there's, you know, there's a big family-centered care team and all these great things happened out of the work that we initially did that, you know, Ella is very aware of, but I've been very careful to let her make her own way without her mom or Sue Robbins, whatever. Like people tell, you know, like, I think it's really important. It's good. She's got a different last name that she's able to make her own way without my— I try not to interfere too much. So there's that. And then, but Aaron involves a different kind of touch for sure. I mean, he lives with us. He's dying to move out. He talks about it every day, getting married and moving out. And certainly that's something we want to work towards. It'll be slower than it was for my other kids. But also, you know, treating him like an adult and not infantilizing him, which is so common with people who have Down syndrome in particular. And, you know, letting him take risks, I think, has been important. And that has been a harder thing for me with him, because I feel like he's a bit more vulnerable than my other two kids. So I think it's all— it's different depending on the child. And then grandchildren. Oh my gosh. I made a video for my eldest grandchild. His name's Levi. He's 4 now. It's called Big Love. And it was about what I had learned from my grandma about how to be a grandma. And it really has to do with the unconditional love. I think that grandparents, if they're in a healthy emotional state, are able to give And it's— I think there's so much joy in watching your own children be parents as well. So there's some very strong vicarious joy in that. And I can be fun, like grandmas are fun and bring the presents and I don't know, like color. And I feel like because I've learned how important it is to live in the moment that little kids live like that too. And so maybe that's why grandparents and little kids. And plus I'm slowing down, right? So I can, I have more patience certainly than I did 32 years ago when I first became a mother. So that is another layer for sure. And yeah, real joy in my life. I'm very lucky. I feel very lucky. Not everyone has grandchildren. And so I feel lucky to see these little kids, but especially to see my daughter flourish as a mother is like, I don't know, that part of it, I didn't, it caught me by surprise.
Sharee Johnson [00:56:31]:
Pretty special. Yeah, right. I love that last little bit you said. And I mean, I think that's part of life and of recalibrating life, that there are surprises, unpredictability, uncertainty. And you've given us a bit of a masterclass, I think, Sue, in this notion of recalibrating, both in the longer term and in the shorter term. And you've been very generous in sharing these bumping into really big things Having a baby that was different to what you anticipated, you know, having a very, you know, life-threatening illness that in a day-to-day way you're managing a lot of the time by yourself, changing course in terms of your work and finding ways to adapt the things that you're good at, the things that you enjoy, and the things that you think are important, that matter, finding ways to bring those together. Of finding different mediums and forums to have voice. Is there anything in this conversation that you want to notice at the end about what you've done in terms of recalibrating or what you've learned about what you might like to offer our listeners?
Sue Robins [00:57:36]:
I think a big part of it, I think I realized I wrote down all the times I recalibrated when I was prepping for our conversation. I was like, maybe I've done it too much. Like, I feel like I do it a lot. I think I get bored. And so I get, you know, there's some things I do change up because I don't really like the routine. I don't know if that's just the way I'm wired or something. So I think I am used to being a little more fluid and flexible that way because I like to be like, we decide to move, we, you know, there's certain things that we've done, or we started a new business, like there's certain things that we've done, but there's like, I don't know. There's a— I put myself out there a lot, you know, as a speaker or writer. Like, I get rejected a lot. There's a lot of rejection in the patient advocacy world, that's for sure. So, and I wonder, so I have a— I have struggles with that, like putting myself out there. Like, I feel terrible. I've got abandonment issues and stuff, but still I keep doing it. I'm not really sure why. There's probably— my therapist can help me with that— a reason why. But I, I, I just I think a lot of it has to do with self-compassion. And I don't like the term self-care very much because we get told that a lot as mom of disabled kids, like, and it's kind of this bubble bath thing. Like, I don't think— whatever, you can have a bubble bath and it gives you comfort. That's great. But that's not all it's really about. I think it's more about showing love to yourself, which I struggled with for a long time. And I, I realized somebody had mentioned this at one of my mom's groups, and it was so brilliant. It was like, think of all the people you care for. So I was writing down all the very— we have a dog, like, my husband, my kids, my grandkids and stuff. I wrote it all down, try to remember my friends' birthdays, like all this kind of stuff. And then they said, why don't you just add yourself to the list? And I'd never really thought about it that way. So I've got these list of all these people I care for. So if I add myself to the list, like, what does that look like if I'm going to take care of myself? So like, this is like a step up from bubble baths, but I like to go to movies. I love movies. So I sometimes during the day, during the week, will sneak off and go to a movie by myself. And I love everything about it. And I think like being in the moment and stuff and recognizing that joy is something that I've had to learned over the years. So, you know, getting your ticket and getting your popcorn and sitting in your seat, and then it gets dark, and then they show the trailers— like, everything. I just love everything about it. And I think it has taken me a long time, and I think Aaron, my youngest in particular, has taught me about joy and about allowing yourself joy. And that's something that I struggled with for a really, really long time. So I think I do allow myself these little cracks little cracks of joy. So if folks can find those, the little things are actually really big. I see I'm watching the sunrise. It's coming up earlier here. We're in wintertime here in Canada. And when I get up at 6:00 AM, the sun's starting to come out and we have a view where we live. So, you know, just those types of things. I think that that's really all we have. And that's what keeps me going.
Sharee Johnson [01:00:46]:
Yeah.
Sue Robins [01:00:46]:
Beautiful. Beautifully said.
Sharee Johnson [01:00:48]:
Um, let's just talk very briefly before we finish about Stay Human. So we will be adding here at Coaching for Doctors, we will certainly be adding hashtag Stay Human to lots of our things that we're putting into the world. It's a beautiful idea. I just smiled and loved it the instant.
Sue Robins [01:01:06]:
Oh, good.
Sharee Johnson [01:01:06]:
Do you want to tell people about Stay Human?
Sue Robins [01:01:10]:
Yeah, I came from— I've been trying to— I do— someone called me a lone wolf at one point. And I kind of got all offended about that. But the reason I was offended is because it's actually true. Like, I do do a lot of work on my own. And I realized that if I'm going to actually, you know, create some sort of change, I have to do it with other people. Like, you have to join a movement, basically. And if there isn't a movement that exists, you have to start it up yourself. Instead of like always knocking on doors that turn you away, I've realized you have to kind of build your own house. So another patient advocate who does a lot of work telling his own patient story about his cancer experience to health faculty students. So he goes to med schools and shares his story, which is just wonderful. So I ran into him because we kind of have the same circles. His name is Vikram Bubber. And he'd been watching my posts about AI and the rise of technology. And I'm not going to go on our AI rant, but I have to say I get very despondent when millions of dollars are put into AI solutions. But I, you know, I went for a tour in the emergency department at Inner City Hospital not that long ago. And we had a blanket— there was a blanket warmer there. And I've got a thing about warm blankets, how they're such wonderful things in healthcare. I wish we had more warm blankets. It's one of the best things after you have a baby, they come and put a warm blanket over you. I mean, the baby part's great too, but the warm blanket part— but on this blanket warmer in like the most busy emergency department in Vancouver, in Vancouver, they had a sign on it that was rationing warm blankets. And I thought to myself, oh boy, like I had just come, you know, I was at a conference, I just come from a session where they were talking about AI, how many millions of dollars they're putting into these AI solutions. And then they can't give out warm blankets in the emergency department. And so I just thought the contrast of that was too much. It's too much for me. And just even the last year, the AI has gotten louder and louder and louder, and the amount of money that's being spent at the high levels, I think they're— it's just out of balance. So what Vikram and I want to talk about are the things in healthcare that are important to us as patients. And I can tell you 95% of them are human things. So they're the human touches. They're the things that aren't counted. And a lot of them have to do with the patient experience. It's like the literal warm blanket and also the metaphor of the warm blanket. And so really, we want to start sharing stories about humanity in healthcare, things that have happened to patients when they're in healthcare. I just shared one today about, you know, when I went for my breast biopsy and the mammogram tech, she held my hand when, you know, when I was getting injections, which was— she didn't have to do that. It was an over and above thing, but how it meant a lot to me. You know, when my hair fell into my face because it's in the mammogram in these weird positions and stuff, it was just awful. It was a 4-hour biopsy I had. And how she, she gently wiped, you know, took my hair out of my face to help give me some dignity. And, and so I wonder if we could talk more about those kinds of things like that actually don't— they actually don't cost that much money. You want the truth? Some of it is free. I talk about like looking at people in the hall and smiling and greeting people, like all these kinds of things, because they make a big difference to patients. And I really believe they make a difference to clinicians too, because it's a two-way thing. When you give kindness, you, it makes you feel good. And when you get it back, it's like a kind of a mutual thing. And I don't want to be all Pollyanna about it because I understand the struggles of healthcare, but I, we want to put a spotlight on those types of stories because I think they don't make headline news and they often get lost. So that's what Vikram and I are doing. We've got an Instagram account that's going and we're just hoping that people can start sharing these lovely tender stories of healthcare experiences and use the #StayHuman hashtag so that we're able to, to collect them and read them. I think it would do all of our hearts it's good.
Sharee Johnson [01:05:23]:
I'm totally, absolutely sure it would. And I'm just delighted to follow you and join Stay Human on Instagram. So we'll put all of that in the show notes. If people want to get in touch with you, Sue, after listening to you today, what should they do?
Sue Robins [01:05:36]:
I have a website. It's suerobbins.com. Robbins with one B, like the bird, as I like to say. And also, I used to be quite active on Twitter, RIP, which I'm not on anymore. So I transferred all my energy from Twitter onto LinkedIn, which LinkedIn is a bit clunky, but I do use it as far as writing stories. And I do a lot of sharing of articles, especially stories, and I share a lot of physician stories there, actually. And so I'm mostly on LinkedIn. So you can just search for me on LinkedIn, Sue Robbins. And find me there. And the Stay Human Instagram is stay and then underscore human, which you'll put in the notes, but you can search for us on Instagram. And I mostly share— there's— Instagram is good for pictures and motivational quotes and all that kind of thing. So that's the type of thing I share there. So I'm in lots of different places. Excellent.
Sharee Johnson [01:06:31]:
Thank you so much for your time today. As always, it's just a joy to talk to you. And yes, I look forward to when we next meet again.
Sue Robins [01:06:39]:
Thank you very much. In person, yeah, wouldn't that be great? Yeah, we should arrange something.
Sharee Johnson [01:06:43]:
Yeah, very exciting. So thank you for your time today and all that you've shared.
Sue Robins [01:06:47]:
Thank you, Sharee.
Sharee Johnson [01:06:51]:
Thank you. Okay, I hope you enjoyed, uh, this episode with Sue Robbins. She is an extraordinary force when it comes to helping all of us in healthcare. Think about what other people might be experiencing. She truly has worked in every part of the health system in terms of her perspective, the lenses she looks through, and I think you could hear a lot of that in, in the conversation. So we've talked about acceptance, we've talked about love, and we've talked about being in the moment. I really love that piece at the end where she recognized that she could add herself to the list of people that she cares for and loves. So I hope if you're a healthcare professional, particularly, if you can take that message with you— can I add myself to the list? Let's not separate out self-care as if it's some other weird thing that we have to try and fit in. Let's add compassion, acceptance, and love to our day-to-day. Recognize that recalibrating is a day-to-day proposition, as Sue has demonstrated for us, and add ourselves to the list. May you be well, and I'll see you next time. The content in this podcast is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical or psychological advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified healthcare professional. This podcast represents the views of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect those of any entity we work with or for.
