Sharee Johnson [00:00:13]:
Hello and welcome to Recalibrating with me, Sharee Johnson, where you'll hear healthcare professionals and others sharing their stories of recalibrating life when the unexpected happened. As a psychologist and a coach, I've been listening deeply to people's stories for 35 years, and I've come to believe two things about people. The first is, having witnessed so many incredible stories of hope, adaptability, and human capacity, I truly believe that we are all capable of so much more than we really think we are. In times of challenge, humans have demonstrated that over and over again. Here on the Recalibrating Podcast, you'll get to hear amazing stories of healthcare professionals and others pivoting, overcoming, and recalibrating their lives. The second thing that the research and my experiences as a psychologist have shown me is that humans need each other. We need people. When we have support around us, when we tell each other our stories, when we connect through through the reality of living our lives, we do so much better than when we pull back and hide what's really going on for us. Together on this podcast, we're going to unearth and amplify what helps us as humans, individually and collectively, to recalibrate in ways that help us change, grow, adapt, even surprise ourselves when life throws us a curveball. This podcast offers you the chance to be inspired and encouraged to meet the unexpected in your life with grace, skills, and a belief in your own human capacity. Life is full of opportunities to recalibrate with agency, the right mindset, the right resources, and the right community. Today's storyteller is Dr. Rob Blum. Rob works as a medical oncologist He graduated from the University of Melbourne in 1992 and did his initial physician training in Melbourne at the Austin Hospital, followed on by oncology training at both St. Vincent's and Peter Mac Cancer Center, where he undertook his fellowship. In 2023, Rob was appointed the clinical director of oncology at Bendigo Health, and he's led the cancer service in Bendigo since then. He's also served as the clinical director for the Loddon Mallee Integrated Cancer Service and contributed to multiple Department of Health programs, including he was a member of the Clinical Council for Safer Care Victoria for a number of years. Since 2022, Rob has been a member of our Recalibrate community of doctors, deepening his commitment to staff wellbeing. He has also completed professional resilience training with Cath McEwan, the terrific program Resilience at Work. He's completed 12 months training with Leadership Victoria and is currently undertaking his professional coaching training with the Institute of Executive Coaching and Leadership. Rob has initiated a number of programs for wellbeing at the Cancer Centre in Bendigo, including inviting the staff to assess their own professional resilience using the Wellbeing Index and making the Wellbeing Index a part of the standard operating procedures in the Cancer Centre in Bendigo. Rob's current focus on sabbatical is to learn how the pro-social framework can be fostered in the cancer center at Bendigo Health. Outside of medicine, Rob enjoys weight training. He's an active musician, which you'll hear us talk about. He performs on the cello, the piano, and with his voice in the local string orchestra, choir, and theater company. Rob is married. He has two adult children, and I can vouch for this, is always curious about new ideas and better ways of working and living. So I'm really very chuffed today to invite Dr. Rob Blum to share some of his story with you here on Recalibrating with Sharee Johnson. Hello, Rob. Lovely to see you.
Rob Blum [00:04:19]:
Hi, how are you?
Sharee Johnson [00:04:21]:
I'm well, thank you. Thanks for joining me here today on Recalibrating with Sharee Johnson. So let's kick off with where your work is at. Right now. So you're the medical director at the cancer center in Bendigo, which means you have an administrative role and a clinical role. Can you just paint a picture, tell us a bit about what work looks like for you at the moment?
Rob Blum [00:04:42]:
Sure. Okay, so, so on the, um, the— as you said, the clinical director of cancer services at Bendigo Health. So we have a cancer center, um, I live in Bendigo, which is a population of just over 100,000, but it drains about 350,000. Um, so it's a relatively busy unit where people come to be treated for their cancer, where they have the chemotherapy, radiotherapy, clinical trials, and all of the supports that go along with that. We've got a group of approximately 70 staff called clinicians, in addition to additional staff as well. It's pretty busy. My day, as you alluded to, consists of both administration, so overseeing the direction of things. I work alongside Chris White, who's the director of the cancer centre. And of course, there are leads in all of our craft groups. But then I've got a pretty large component of work that is seeing patients, and I'd have to say it's probably about 80% of it is still clinical. So I have a significant clinical load, plus I have to look at some of these other components of the way that the unit operates. And I suppose, you know, what we are constantly doing is looking for improvement, looking for innovation, and growing the service because the population is, is increasing. And as the unit becomes more self-sufficient, we get more people who would historically have gone to Melbourne come and be treated locally.
Sharee Johnson [00:06:15]:
And obviously you didn't just land here out of the sky. You've been on a long journey from school through medical school and through your specialty training and so on. Now you're training and supervising other oncologists. So can you just walk us through for a few minutes that, that story, the significant steps that might have shaped you and helped you get to where you are?
Rob Blum [00:06:36]:
Sure. Okay, so, um, I, I live— I grew up in Melbourne, um, so I grew up, um, in St. Albans, which is a one of the western suburbs for people that, uh, working-class area. Um, neither of my parents were professional, both were European from overseas. Um, so came from a good grounding, but, you know, uh, work ethics was important because that people were, you know, particularly the new migrants were, you know, attempting to make a new life and to work hard. So that was a good basis for my own personal work ethics. And then went to multiple schools, eventually went to Melbourne High, which was an academic school, a selective school, and then ended up doing medicine I realistically had no idea what that actually was, so I didn't have any personal experience with it. It was more of a concept, and I think that in some respects that was helpful in some ways because I didn't have an expectation of what it looked like. Then eventually decided that I would do physician training, and my first experience with cancer actually was at the Austin Hospital as a resident, and I knew immediately that that's what I wanted to do because What I loved about the work was that it was very much team-based. So, you know, all the components, the allied health, the nursing staff, the other doctors, they all had an equal and important part. And I loved the fact that you would work together and support each other. I've also found that obviously the medicine very interesting. Patients were often very grateful for the work, you know, for the treatment that they received. And it was very gratifying. And also, you know, I think it's really a boom area. Things are changing so rapidly, so it's never boring. In terms of my ending up in Bendigo, that was really serendipity. It wasn't a plan. I was at Peter Mac, I was doing my fellowship there, and essentially their primary oncologist decided to move interstate, and so they didn't have a replacement. Peter Mac, as an organization, provided an outreach service in the interim, and I thought it would be a good opportunity to see some more common stuff. I was seeing a lot of rarer things at quaternary hospitals. I want to see some of the common variety cancer treatments and patients. As a result of that, I said, "Can I come along to these clinics too?" That's how I ended up there. And, uh, you know, the truth be told, I was going to come go with a clinician of a friend of mine, um, and then at the 11th hour they got another job. So I ended up, uh, going to Bendigo Health as a sole clinician, which is exactly what I didn't want to do. I was 34 years of age, but I felt like I'd made a commitment. And, uh, as a— I was married at that stage with young children, and we decided to— Kate and I, who's my wife, um, decided that we would give it a shot and see what it was like. Knowing that we had choices and that if it wasn't going to work, we would, you know, we would make other decisions. So, um, starting off there as a single oncologist— and just to give you some perspective, we now have about 9— um, it was pretty scary.
Sharee Johnson [00:10:09]:
Yeah. Um, and when you made that move, you didn't buy a house or something? You moved with, you know, your options open to be able to fairly easily go back to Melbourne? Or—
Rob Blum [00:10:18]:
Absolutely. Yeah. No, no, I mean, uh, again, you know, having European working-class parents, you don't make decision, you don't have to. So we, yeah, we kept our house in Melbourne, um, in fact we still have it, and, uh, we rented just to get a sort of a lie of the land and see what it was like. But, you know, to be honest with you, the reason I contemplated going there was again the team. So, um, what struck me was that when I, um, met with the team that existed, which obviously was a lot smaller than it is now, I love their can-do attitude. If we needed to do something, they just said, "We'll find a way." They were, again, very innovative and nimble, and they had to be because they had a lot less resources. It was also their community. Again, I love that concept of the team. It was for that reason, I thought, that I actually contemplated doing it because it was reminiscent of an experience that I had when I first started my oncology training, which was at St. Vincent's. And I had the same experience. I can remember the, her name was Ann Cook. She was like a senior, you know, the nurse unit manager. And I can remember my first day, she said, "Welcome. You know, if there's anything that we can help you with, you know, just call out and we'll be there to support you." And I felt immediately at home. So again, it was something that drew me to the Bendigo unit that I thought, I think, I think I can, I can work and live here because it is like it's another home, right? For me at least, it's not something that I just go to at certain times. It's another place that is my home environment, so it has to feel right.
Sharee Johnson [00:12:09]:
I'm interested, Robin, you know, you're talking about your family and Kate, and like they also had to do some recalibrating, didn't they? So what, what are the important things about Are there differences in how you have to— how you go about this recalibrating when you're doing it with another group of people, in this case your family, or when you're just deciding to yourself, well, I'll go to this hospital? And I'm also interested in this story, in that experience of team is so important and so appealing and so much a part of it for you, and then you arrive and you're a solo practitioner, although you're pointing now to you did have some colleagues, nurses and others.
Rob Blum [00:12:45]:
Yeah, so to your first question, I mean, I sort of feel like, you know, the concept of the recalibrate and the skill sets, I mean, the universal, it doesn't matter what challenges, where the challenges lie, whether it's at home or at work, I feel it's the same. I think probably the differences are that for your family, there's always, there's always the risk I think, and I feel like this does happen particularly in the medical field, that because of the pressures of work and because of where you work, you sometimes can take for granted your family. And there's a real risk in that. So I think the difference is that your family is your family. And I've certainly been guilty of that myself, that sometimes you can sacrifice your family for your work. Um, but at the end of the day, it is still work, and your families I think should take priority. But we don't always do that, right? We think they'll always be there until they're not. So I think that's probably the only distinction I would make, but the skill sets I think are the same. That's my interpretation of it.
Sharee Johnson [00:14:00]:
Can you, can you name a couple of those skills? What do you think are important?
Rob Blum [00:14:05]:
Oh, I like— I think, you know, one of the things for me is this concept of the being mindful of what's going on. And, you know, I think for some people they think, well, that's just when you, you know, do some relaxation, deep breathing. But what it is, is it's the gap between, um, an experience and a response to it. So, and I think that, you know, think about this, you know, you know, being aware of how your environment, the situation is is making you feel, having the space to acknowledge that I'm feeling angry, you know, scared, joyous, whatever, and then thinking about, okay, right, well, what I'm going to— how am I going to react to that? I think, you know, often the thing for me that's probably most impactful was that until I spent some time looking at these things you know, it was pretty much brainstem stuff. And the problem with that is that sometimes when you do the brain, brainstem stuff and it's something that is high stakes or high emotions, you can be down the track somewhere and then you think, how am I going to get out of this? I've gone too far, I've said too much, I've done too much, and now I'm going to have to backpedal a lot. Whereas having that capacity to just take a couple of seconds and think, 'Nah, that's actually going to be really dumb saying that. I might do it a different way.' I've actually found that really helpful personally because, you know, again, I'm blaming my European genetics here that, you know, we're often very emotional and reactive to stuff. And, you know, particularly when you're in positions where you have to lead people, um, it's probably not the best way to operate. Most of the time.
Sharee Johnson [00:15:57]:
Yeah, and so for people who don't understand the lingo, I think that brainstem reference is that reactive hot brain.
Rob Blum [00:16:03]:
It just happens, it just comes out. That's one of the things that I've, um, that I've got out of the Recalibrate stuff, um, or the process of doing it. I think for me, the, the other important components of it have been the concept of looking after yourself. And that's— I mean, that, you know, you hear about that all the time, but about prioritizing what's in— what, what do you need to fill your bucket so that you can do the work? And I think probably in the past, again, coming from the, the, the background that I've got, the concept of self-sacrifice, you know, in order to get through university and, and get your exams, that sort of stuff, which we do have to do a lot of delayed gratification. But when you get to the end if you don't, if you don't change up what you're doing, it starts to become deleterious to you. And I remember, I can't remember the book, you probably can help me, but it was a palliative care physician who talked about having those characteristics that might initially be beneficial to you in terms of, you know, they're the, they're the characters that allow you to end up excelling at school, getting your high ATAR, or in my case, HSC, um, and then getting to university and passing all the exams. But then if you keep on using that self-deprivation stuff, it starts to be deleterious to you. That's when you start to sacrifice your family. That's when you start to sacrifice your health. And I think for me, while I've been always pretty, um, aware of like health, but it became more, um, evident as I get closer to death, that you've got to work hard to keep yourself well. Um, but also, you know, you have to start drawing some lines and saying, well, actually, um, I'm not going to go to that meeting at 8, you know, at 7 o'clock because that's when I go to the gym and that's actually really important to me and that's going to allow me to do the rest of the day. And so I used to see those things as being extras, but now I think, well, those things are actually essential And you can't do it all. So I'm going to cut some stuff out that I might have once felt obliged to, but now I can say, no, not doing that.
Sharee Johnson [00:18:22]:
Do you think that priority setting and that, you know, deciding what's core and what's extra is different through the, through the phases of your career or through this age, your ages?
Rob Blum [00:18:33]:
Totally. I mean, I think having— yeah, I'll clarify that. I feel that it definitely is because it comes from, I suppose, as you get more comfortable with who you are and also realistically have a track record, then you're— the power position is different. I think when you start your career, that's very hard to do. And again, you know, I, you know, I'm 57 years of age, so when I started, you know, a lot of this concept of well-being, I mean, that just didn't exist. And you would never question the hours you got you would never— you didn't have afternoons off, I can tell you that. So that, that wasn't even part of the vernacular to be even thinking about this, right? So, you know, I feel like I've gone through some stages. I mean, you know, the things that, that we had to do is now illegal. Um, you know, being on, on call for 4 days consecutively, 24 hours a day, that just doesn't happen anymore, for good reason. Um, but I think also it's a little bit like, as you get older, you start to think, well, you know what, um, I'm pretty comfortable with that decision If you don't like that, um, then maybe you need to make another decision about it. So I feel like generational— and, and I feel like I'm getting— I sound like an old person now, but I feel like the generational thing is, is changing though, because I know, you know, that even when we look at our rosters for, you know, younger doctors, they're, you know, the hospital administrators actually are quite, um, strict about, you know, the number of hours and, you know, having their time off and educational time, that sort of stuff, which I think is a good thing. Um, and I don't know, I feel maybe, uh, again, from a generational perspective, that may be changing. But I'd be— I mean, that's just my opinion.
Sharee Johnson [00:20:21]:
Well, I think it— yes, it's your opinion, but we also need to recognize the evidence if we want to talk about being evidence-based. You know, there is evidence that working in those ways was not helpful for doctor decision-making. Let's just pick on that one. I mean, it wasn't helpful in lots of ways, but we, we know now that Working on call for days and days and days in a row, or not having sleep, or having interrupted sleep, has significant impact on a person's capacity to relate to other people, to make decisions, and to not make errors. So, you know, I guess there's science behind that as well as just people saying, I don't like my life looking like this. And I want to pick up— you talked about, you know, track the importance of track record. And I think that's really reassuring for any younger doctors that might listen to this, because I often hear that in coaching, that younger doctors are saying yes to everything because they feel like that builds their network, which I think it does, and it gets some credit in the bank, it gets some, some more things on their CV. So it's a really careful balance, isn't it? And it's, uh, kind of lovely hearing you say that you can be finished with some of that now and be letting go of some things. What does that feel like? Has that been a bit of a mental shift or a mind shift to get to that place?
Rob Blum [00:21:42]:
Totally. I mean, it's interesting because, again, you know, putting this into context, so I've, as I said, I've mentioned I've worked with, you know, well, 9 other oncologists who, and including also some hematologists as well. We've got, I think we've got 4 at the present moment. But, you know, many of the junior consultants I would consider to be very capable, very bright, charismatic, and as a colleague, you could feel a bit threatening. But again, when it comes to things like good leadership, it's like, well, this is their time and you can let go of some of those opportunities that you might have once been in the spotlight, um, because it is the natural progression of things. And, um, they, you know, the, the people that are coming up have got, um, you know, different skill sets, different experiences, different ideas, um, and, you know, if, you know, if you're a good leader, you should be bringing them along and allowing them to thrive, right? So, um, Again, it's one of those giving up stuff, you know, which, you know, as you progress through your career, that, that is, that is, that's what should happen. And I think sometimes when people don't give up some of that stuff, then it's not just deleterious to them, but sometimes it's deleterious to people around them because, you know, uh, the world is always changing.
Sharee Johnson [00:23:21]:
Totally. So this notion of recalibrating or adapting or adjusting, it requires adding, picking up, but also it requires letting down and putting things, finishing things, or moving away from things. And that, you know, that can be fear-inducing for people, that what if I want to pick it up again, or what if I miss it, or what if I want to come back to it? Um, can you cast your mind forward to, you know, you're talking about this phase of your career, to the retirement kind of decisions and those processes? What, what comes up for you thinking about that?
Rob Blum [00:23:55]:
Well, I think one of the things that— and I've seen it happen in the past— there are some people who their career is everything, right? In order to get to the heights that they've achieved, they have sacrificed relationships, families, those sorts of things. Um, it's difficult, isn't it? Because, you know, some of these people will potentially generate amazing research or do amazing things. Um, and if they didn't, well, then someone else might not do that, but you— that's a choice that you need to make. But for me personally, I, I'm— I would consider myself a bit greedy in the sense that I like to do a lot of things that are outside of work. Um, and you know, the concept of transitioning is not so— not— I'm not so— I'm not afraid of it. I think— I feel it's, it's just a natural progression that, you know, everybody has to do. And I do have other things to look forward to that I currently do that I'd like to give more space. So for me, it's just, it's just a natural process. I think, I think that people who are fearful of it, uh, often because they have nothing else, so they think, if I don't do this, what am I going to do? Um, so I feel like that's, that's comes back to that previous point we made about the fact that you've got to have other things in your life that fill your buckets and give you energy and sustenance. And, um, uh, it's also a good security. It's a bit like, you know, you don't put all your investments in one, one basket.
Sharee Johnson [00:25:33]:
You're really touching on, um, Nassim Nicholas Taleb's idea of antifragility. I don't know if you know that idea, but he says that, um, the opposite of fragile is antifragile, and that there isn't really an English word that's the opposite of fragile. I was thinking about robust, and he says, well, robust doesn't— you know, it's neutral. Something can happen to something that's robust, it stays the same. But something that's antifragile doesn't break, and it grows. It's better for the stress. It develops from the stress. And one of the things that makes people antifragile is having options, which is what you're speaking to. This idea that when we have options, we, we can flex and adapt and adjust and feel like, that's okay, I'll put my energy or my time over here. And fragility is very much a part of perfectionism or procrastination, that I've got to protect myself and defend and manage the risks. Whereas antifragile is, well, I can handle the risk. I've got confidence in myself. I've got options. Which I think is lovely. You've given a lovely kind of reflection on that. You've supervised and mentored a lot of young doctors at this stage of your career. If you could, you know, kind of give them something, words of wisdom, um, about this idea of this continual change, this continued continual recalibrating that goes on through not just a medical career, through life, have you got a gem or two that you would want to offer them?
Rob Blum [00:27:07]:
I think one of the important things about, you know, life, work in general, is having a really, um, good idea of self. So what, what am I about? Um, what, what are my values? What's important to me? Um, because I think if you're clear about that, then when you have to deal with important decisions, you can reference that and say, does this fit with, um, with what I envisage is important to me. I think that's something that's really important, um, because again, if we think about, um, you know, the medical profession, and it probably applies to many other careers, there's, there's a strong sense of what a doctor looks like, you know, what they dress like, um, what they sound like. And it's not true, but there can be a strong sense that people will form themselves to emulate that so that they have their iron-willed boots and that sort of stuff. Um, I don't— I don't pair, just to let you know. Um, but anyway, thank goodness for that. But, you know, but it's like, um, you know, you know yourself that when you meet someone who's true to themselves, it's like a breath of fresh air. And actually, that experience comes across to the patient as well. So, I mean, of course, you know, you've got to be mindful of the environment that you're in, so you can't be completely— you know, um, you have to have some concept of what's appropriate for the space. But nonetheless, that being genuine and true, I think that's really important. When you do— when you have to maintain a facade um, you make choices that you don't necessarily want to do. And, you know, if you've got to— if you've got to make those decisions, you have to ask yourself the question, is that what I really want? It might be, but I think doing it in a conscious way is, is far better. I know for me, I think about it, you know, like, I, I sort of trained in Melbourne. I was at the Austin, St Vincent's, Peter Mac. They're all academic centers, right? So for me to think about moving to the country or the regional center at that stage, which is different now, I feel, was not a common choice. There were some people, some pioneers that did it, clearly, and thank goodness for that. But, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't the most popular decision. And on reflection, I think I've had so many more opportunities to do stuff, you know, in terms of working with government and, you know, looking at regional issues and obviously within the hospital itself. So, and again, even from a personal perspective, I mean, you know, the lifestyle, I always hear people talk about the lifestyle. What is the lifestyle? And my definition of the lifestyle is time. So, you know, I travel 4 minutes to work, you know, 4 minutes back. And if you have no time, you have no lifestyle. So, you know, proximity to everything has made a significant difference in terms of what I can do. So I think that's probably an important thing to do. Is to think about what are your core values and, you know, and make reference to that when you're making important decisions. And I think probably the other thing that again can be challenging, but, you know, getting, getting someone that you relate to as a supervisor or someone that can mentor you, I think is important because one of the other challenges that we all have is that we are, we deal with adversity or challenges and having someone that you can safely be honest with and bounce ideas off, I think, is really helpful. Um, because again, it is a competitive market, you know, you've got to— you do have to be a little bit cautious about, you know, what your— what decisions you're going to make and how it's going to be interpreted. And, you know, to be honest with you, you know, not everyone in, in, in the field is necessarily supportive or conscious of, you know, some of these things that we're talking about. So, uh, which is unfortunate, but it's a reality. So I think having someone that you can, that you can bounce ideas off or have a support network, I think, is really important because it'll help you make better informed decisions.
Sharee Johnson [00:31:44]:
Yeah, so we've got, um, know your values or know yourself and have some anchors in that regard. Um, think about your lifestyle in relation to that too. Like, what is it that you want to be spending your energy and time on? And, uh, having somebody that you can trust who call you out, but also who will support you and, you know, have an honest, frank conversation with. And that person might be in medicine, or they might be outside. Maybe for different issues you might need different people.
Rob Blum [00:32:13]:
Yeah, probably the only other thing I'd also say is think broadly. So again, you know, uh, if I think again about my own personal experience, um, it's, you know, when you, when you first get into the system, uh, at least from what I, what I saw, it's very narrow. Like, the concept of what is— what success looks like is very narrow. It's like you do, you know, your training, whether it's in your general practice or, you know, specialty training. Um, uh, ideally, um, you know, if you, if you're really successful, you become an academic and you publish and you present and if you're really smart, you know, you'll hit a research unit, you know, for example. And, you know, I mean, that, that can be true for some people, but I remember when I was doing some research, um, you know, uh, through my training, and it was probably, to be honest with you, partly what I was researching on rather than the research itself, but I didn't feel the passion. And if that— it's, it's different if you're doing it for a period of time and then you stop it. But if you're going to be doing something, you know, um, for the rest of your life potentially, you gotta love it, or at least like it. Um, and so I think that that's also important. And so, you know, I've met people on the way that have done stuff that I hadn't even— didn't even know existed, you know what I mean? Um, and, you know, the other thing about a career is that What it— what I realized once when I was actually, um, was that a work sort of a work, um, uh, uh, with a brainstorm thing where they had an engineer that was employed within the hospital, not, not structurally, but because of the way that their brain worked, they, they were— they approached problems in a different way. And I thought, well, actually, you know, you have skill sets when you, uh, when you're trying to do a particular career, and you use that process to really look at probably lots of things, not just medical ones. But, you know, you could use that medical experience in things that are not patient-based, or, you know, it's extremely broad. So don't— that's probably the other thing too, is that, you know, it's always important to question because you know, there are broader things sometimes than what has been presented to you. And, um, you know, take— I think take courage in looking at those things. Even if it's not the most popular thing, it might be right for you.
Sharee Johnson [00:34:48]:
Yeah, you're taking me back to an earlier part of our conversation when you were going to Bendigo and you found out that your colleague wasn't coming. Did you have a— did you rethink? Did you just consider not, not going? What, what was the recalibrating that happened then?
Rob Blum [00:35:03]:
Yeah, no, I took about 3 days to think about it because I was, I was literally petrified because it was everything I didn't want to do. I would be potentially professionally isolated. I had just finished my training. I'd never done any form of— well, you often don't training in managing other people in that sort of sense. So, and also I'd never lived for an extended time outside of Melbourne, so I was thinking, what does this mean for my family? You know, what would the education be like? You know, and I can distinctly remember, um, I couldn't find ABC Classic FM, and I thought, I can't believe this, they don't have— it's like, it's actually just down there, it's down there, it's back down the, you know, it's always another, another number. It was a different number.
Sharee Johnson [00:35:53]:
Yeah, yeah. And what helped you stay? What were the things that led to you— what was decision-making process? Not so much the factors, but yeah, process to decide to stay.
Rob Blum [00:36:02]:
I, I think what I, I did was, I mean, I obviously, I spoke to Kate about it and we sat down and literally looked at the pros and the cons. And I think for me, you know, the ultimate thing was, um, you know, there are very few choices you can't reverse. There are some, but there aren't many. And so again, I suppose if you hold fast and think about that Um, you know, I think it's sometimes I think the fear can paralyze you. And, and, you know, for me, I mean, you know, I really have absolutely no regrets at all. I think it was the right choice, but it was scary at the time. But again, I don't know, I— my personal belief is that I don't— I try not to shy away from things that I find scary. Um, and I suppose that's probably the other thing too that I've, you know, again, it's been reinforced by some of the recalibrates, that concept of leaning into stuff rather than, you know, leaning away from things.
Sharee Johnson [00:37:04]:
Yeah, I love— I think I can hear the adventurer's heart in the story. Something about, you know, when you go on an adventure, there are obstacles. It's different to just traveling along a road. You know, it's an adventure. There are unknown things. There are obstacles that we'll have to navigate, and we're not sure. There's an uncertainty in that journey. And that's what I can hear in that story, the adventurer's heart, that the willingness to take a bit of a risk and to find out.
Rob Blum [00:37:31]:
But I think realistically, I mean, we do that all the time. Everything we do has a risk or an unknown component to it. I mean, if you think that that's not the case, I think that's delusional. But also, you know, you can't do great things if you don't take risks.
Sharee Johnson [00:37:48]:
Awesome. So let's, let's move our focus a little bit. So, You've just alluded to or just talked about Classic FM. You're a musician, you play the cello and the piano and probably other things that I don't know about. You sing in a choir and you're recently treading the boards in an amateur theater production. I can't wait to come and see it. So tell us about that. You have prioritized these non-medical things, these other activities. I think you said that you were greedy about it before. What's the balancing act that's required to hold a leadership position in medicine, have a lot of responsibilities, have 80% of your time at work, uh, clinical, so lots of patients also who are relying on you or looking to you? What's that balancing act like?
Rob Blum [00:38:40]:
Um, so I think one of the first things is, um, get rid of perfectionism. Uh, so, you know, if I wanted to do everything to the level that I would like to do, um, I'd need more than 24 hours in the day or not have to sleep. Um, but I feel like, you know, there have been times when I've, you know, for example, literally just practiced the cello, you know, once or twice a week for 30 minutes and still gone from a lesson. But I think if I stop doing that, it'll just disappear completely. So I think giving it some sort of priority— you might not be able to do it exactly the way that you want to do it, but doing it some of the time is better than none at all. And I have to say that when it comes to physical fitness and all that sort of stuff, it's non-negotiable pretty much, because I feel like that's going to help with my mental well-being and my, you know, decreasing frailty and all that sort of stuff. So, but, um, I, yeah, I, I try to do it as best I can, but I make sure I do some of it, if, if not all of it, the way that I'd like to. Um, because it has been something I've done since I was 6 years of age. And in fact, you know, when I was in a— yeah, VCE, uh, sorry, uh, HSC, uh, which was Form 6 then, which is now Year 12, I was actually going to go to the con. That was what I was going to do, and then I did a flip at the end. So it's always been a big part of my life. Um, Again, to be honest with you, I try to modify stuff or move things around if I can. As part of my passion for music, we've got a grand piano in the cancer center where we get musicians to come and play for our patients. I'll be honest with you, part of it was motivated by the fact that I could access the keyboard occasionally at work.
Sharee Johnson [00:40:34]:
How often do you actually play it at work?
Rob Blum [00:40:36]:
I don't play that often. I'll play probably every, I don't know, maybe a couple of months. Um, I'm on sabbatical at the moment, so I'll probably do more, more of that. But it is interesting because even that, it's been used by other staff. Sometimes they'll come at the end of the day just to unwind. So it's got all those benefits, you know, for everybody.
Sharee Johnson [00:40:55]:
So, um, I think the— I think the Hush Foundation, or maybe some others were involved, had a program of bringing pianos into hospitals. I think that in Australia at least, they might have been involved in a lot of hospitals getting pianos. I can't remember what that— do you know what that scheme was? Not, not sure. Yeah, so what's the— you know, again, another story of demonstrating your value, and also a habit. I think that, you know, you've, you had a habit since you were a small child of playing music that you haven't been prepared to let go. You haven't been prepared to let the other things that have come into your life push it out, which doctors often do say that, you know, I used to play the violin, I used to run in triathlons, I used to whatever, and, um, you know, there was no time for that during my exams, and it's never been reinstated. I've never got it back in. Any, any reflections that might be helpful in that space for, for other people, or, or even just commentary about what it brings to your life to have kept those exercise and the music in, in the mix?
Rob Blum [00:41:58]:
Yeah, I mean, I think the first thing that comes to mind is I always say this: you only have so many heartbeats. So, you know, and that's partly how I value what you do. You know, sometimes you can be in a meeting for 3 hours and you go, I'm never going to get those heartbeats back. That was not— so not worth it. So I think, you know, that concept of we've got limited time— is this what I want to be doing? And so for music, the answer is absolutely yes, and I want to do more of it. If I could. And, you know, I feel like, you know, that concept of missed opportunity, you know, I, you know, at the end of the road, I want to be able to think, you know, I've squeezed every ounce of opportunity out of the life that I've, you know, lived.
Sharee Johnson [00:42:45]:
I can't think who says it, but somebody that says, you know, if it's a, if it's a, I'm not sure, it's a no. And it's, if I'm doing it, it's got to be a hell yes.
Rob Blum [00:42:56]:
Yeah, absolutely. And it is good for you. I mean, it makes, you know, if you sing, you know, there's all the science behind it, but we know that you feel good, you feel better, you feel elated. I mean, the same experience, maybe not to some degree, is watching somebody else do something, you know, whether you go see a performance professionally or otherwise, you know, being part of an audience and experiencing that together is also really positive. Whatever that thing is that you get, whether it's, you know, being out, you know, in nature, you know, doing triathlons, knitting, reading books, whatever. Um, you know, there's more to life than work.
Sharee Johnson [00:43:33]:
Joy. Yeah, yeah, this thing about joy, it's amazing, beautiful. Um, so we've talked a bit about time and we've talked about energy. Um, actually, let's go to talk about your biceps. So you had an— you had an injury that came from really a normal, ordinary activity you never could have predicted, helping, helping your friend, um, that really threatened your, your ability particularly to play the cello. Can— that was a, a moment of certainly of having to recalibrate your mindset for a while and, and also your physical body. Can you tell us that story?
Rob Blum [00:44:08]:
Yeah, sure. That was probably about— that was about 3, 2 and a half to 3 years ago. Um, yeah, so very innocent, um, event, um, was— and it wasn't particularly heavy, but helping a friend move an ottoman, and we were going down the stairs, and unfortunately I was behind and coming down the stairs, and they moved too quickly, so my arm was extended under weight, and literally I felt the biceps tear off the, uh, you know, off the bone. And so got it repaired, but unfortunately had a— they still can't explain it, but following the procedure, um, I ended up having a radial nerve, um, injury. And so, um, essentially I couldn't lift, move my wrist properly. I had numbness along the outside of my wrist and hand, and also I lost dexterity in that hand. So and it happened really quickly. Like, the wasting, it's phenomenal. It happens within weeks. Fortunately, we got an opinion from a neuroplastic surgeon who diagnosed essentially some narrowings around in the upper part of the arm, and they were released. And he said— he actually said to me, he said, this is such a rare condition. I've only seen 3 or 4 of them. And I said, you know, what will happen if you, if you do it? You know, will it make it worse? He goes, I don't think so. It might not make it better. I said, well, let's do it. So did that, and then, um, had to do intensive gym work and, um, and hand physiotherapy. They told me that whatever function I got at 6 months was probably what I was going to get. And I thought, no, I'm not accepting that.. So I worked on it for 2 years and pretty much got it all back, but I couldn't play the piano. I could move my fingers, but it sounded really woody, had no dexterity. I couldn't even play the cello. And so, you know, because this is an important part of my identity, of who I am and what I love to do, and I thought, you know, this, it started to do my head in a bit. I remember I don't journal, Um, but I, I did actually keep a journal because what I thought that this process was going to be slow, it would be cathartic, and then I'd be able to look back and say, oh, actually, 6 months ago, you know, this is all I could do. Now I can do this. It might actually sustain me. Um, but I also thought I can still sing, and bugger it, I'll learn the trumpet because it's just one hand. Seriously, I thought I'm going to give this 12 months, and if I can't if it's going to be rubbish, I'll just learn the trumpet. So that's what I did. But it was really interesting because I couldn't put on a belt properly. I struggled to put on my underpants. And I think for me, what it made me realize, not just the loss of the musical stuff, but I thought, this is what other people face all the time. So for me, it was like, you know, when someone came in and they talked about losing function, and for whatever reason, I thought, I get it. So, you know, I mean, again, it's one of those things you would not choose to do this or have this experience, but it really does change your perception of stuff. Um, and I think the other thing for me, you know, right, it's a bit like any form of grief. Initially you feel awful, and you wake up thinking, oh my God, this is real, so it's not a dream. But at some point it does start to get better. And, um, you know, uh, I don't know that I don't— I mean, I still remember it. Um, if anything, it's probably just augmented my joy and appreciation for what you have, which again makes sense. But, um, yeah, it's a, it's a pretty significant experience to have. And I would imagine it's like any loss, you know, people, you know, lose their job or that sort of stuff, you've got to go through that process. But, you know, one of my colleagues, Vicki Chapman, who's a palliative care consultant, talked about when she went to the dentist, there was a little sort of framed sort of image that said, even the darkest hour only has 60 minutes.
Sharee Johnson [00:48:44]:
That's useful. Try and lock that one in too. Yeah, it's humbling, isn't it? These experiences humbling, remind us that we're human.
Rob Blum [00:48:52]:
Oh, absolutely. Like I said, I mean, I'd lost some pretty significant basic function. In fact, I can remember, you know, I had to get my car serviced and I had to travel to Shepparton for that. And, um, I couldn't— I bought— I ordered lunch and I couldn't even eat it properly. I sort of thought like, oh, you know, wow, this is— and I thought, I'll just, just push through it. But, you know, it was, it was interesting.
Sharee Johnson [00:49:15]:
Like, that's the level of being self-aware of the fact that you couldn't, you couldn't eat properly. So you made a throwaway comment maybe then of push through it, and you know, that is definitely—
Rob Blum [00:49:27]:
takes—
Sharee Johnson [00:49:27]:
that has its place, this idea of pushing through something that's hard. We know actually that that develops some of the parts of our brain that help us do hard stuff again next time. So that's a very valuable capacity to be able to have that awareness. So this is hard, but it won't be hard forever, and something that's important to me, so keep going. But what else was really important to you in that time of, you know, being humbled by your body?
Rob Blum [00:49:51]:
I had to reframe stuff. It's that mental flexibility. It's like, okay, well, this is what I kept on saying to myself: this is what it is today. This is not necessarily what it'll be tomorrow or in a week's time, but this is what it is today. And, you know, and if I do have a couple of wins um, then, you know, uh, then that's some sort of progress. And then also what I had to be thinking about is also without being, you know, uh, Pollyannish about it, like, okay, we're going to give this a set time, and then if at that point it looks exactly the same, then I'm going to have to mix it up. That options thing again. Yeah, well, it's like, you know, if this, if this is what it looks like, I— and I don't like what this looks like I'm going to have to make some changes or different choices.
Sharee Johnson [00:50:45]:
Yeah. So we've been talking in general about recalibrating. You have referred a couple of times to our Recalibrate program, and I remember so vividly when you and I talked in 2020, it was the first year of the COVID pandemic. You were inquiring about this program that we were offering, and we were in suspension because we were trying to think about, could we do it online? Could we run this program that was really about connection and peer support and developing skills between our, in our interpersonal communication, could we do it online? As many people were asking those kinds of questions, what can we do online now that we're all in lockdown? And I remember very vividly you saying, I want to experience it myself because I think I'd like to encourage some other people to do it, but I want to know what it is. I want to experience it first. I think this leadership of leaders go first in terms of risk or being courageous or trying something new has a lot of merit. Can you talk to us a little bit about where that's come from in you or what's important to you about that idea?
Rob Blum [00:51:53]:
It's a little bit like if I think about my current situation in, in that I'm a clinician and I'm also I have managerial responsibilities. There's two things I feel like, you know, it— while it might not be true in all instances, um, you got street cred if you're also doing the work. Like, if I'm sitting from a position where I don't do any of that stuff that I'm asking you to do, then it's— unless I've done it before, at least— it's very difficult to appreciate what the impact of what that might be. And I always— again, it comes back to my sense of teamwork. I feel like if I roll up my sleeves and I'm beside you, then I feel like, you know, I'm, I'm validating what I'm doing. Because not only am I asking you to do it, but I'm doing it as well and demonstrating. And I think, again, that, that is an important part of leadership because, you know, kids can pick out a phony really easily, right? So it's like, if you're not, if you're not walking the walk, um, I think it's, it can be difficult. I mean, it depends on what it is. Like, if it's something that's, you know, not important, but if you're asking for someone to invest in something significant, um, then I feel like it is a bit harder to ask someone to do it if you haven't done it before. So it's something that I, I must admit, I tend to sort of take an approach to that. Like, we've looked at, you know, the role of AI, for example, and, you know, in terms of one of the first people to try it, I want to be one of those people because I don't want to, you know, request someone else to do something and then find out that I'm making their life more difficult without experiencing it myself and understanding it.
Sharee Johnson [00:53:44]:
So, so it's not just about kind of the shiny new thing and early adoption, it's about having a deeper understanding and, and, um, well, literally a lived experience of things. Yeah, yeah. I think there's something very honorable about that in terms of, you know, particularly in the work that we're talking about where we're asking people to do self-development work and, uh, to be, you know, radically responsible for the choices that they're making, um, to say I'm also doing that too. There's a idea in the therapy world and in the coaching world that you can't really bring anybody in those processes, in therapy and coaching, you can't really bring anybody where you haven't been yourself. You know, if you're not willing to feel uncomfortable about some powerful feeling rising up in your body, then how can you expect to sit with somebody else who's, who's doing that? Um, so yeah, I think there's, there's a kind of feels like Mr. Miyagi or something out of Karate Kid that there's something honorable about this. Process. So, um, before we wrap up our conversation, Rob, is there any other things that you can think about in your experience about these moments of recalibration where things are going wrong or the world's thrown you a curveball or something happened that wasn't quite to plan, but you know, here it is, this is the reality that you, after this conversation, this reflection, are noticing about that process or those moments that's been of value that you can spot.
Rob Blum [00:55:13]:
I think, I think the important thing is that when you're feeling that way, just stop. It's a bit like when you get lost, they tell you don't, don't keep walking, sit down and stay still for a minute and just, just think about what's going on and why you're feeling that way, you know. Because I feel like, as I sort of alluded to before, there's usually another option You just have to find it. Um, and sometimes what you— what you're thinking is happening is not what's happening, or, you know, catastrophizing something. So if you're feeling overwhelmed, just stop and breathe. And, you know, again, if you've got someone who you can bounce ideas off, I think that's also very helpful, because then they can either validate what you're experiencing, or they can say say, um, that's not my— that's not my perception. Have you thought about this? Um, because I feel like, um, I don't know, there's just a sense of urgency that you've gotta, you know, you have to make all these decisions in your career and you've got to do it quickly and you've got to do this and you've got to do that.
Sharee Johnson [00:56:19]:
And it's like, well, who says?
Rob Blum [00:56:22]:
Beautiful. Who says? Yeah, yeah. Um, so sometimes you've got to take yourself right out of. And that's— I think that, um, you know, again, from a professional perspective, while it was a— it was like, you know, working in a regional area, it, it is diff— it's different, but it's good different. But sometimes you got to take yourself out of, you know, a situation where this is all you're seeing, um, and go somewhere else. And sometimes it can, it can be quite different. It can give you the courage to to, you know, maybe reevaluate or look at it in a different way. So I think that's probably my take-home message, is just, just be still and sit with it and try to work out— let the dust settle, work out what's actually going on.
Sharee Johnson [00:57:11]:
Because sometimes it's in your head. Well, I think there's nearly always an in-the-head component, isn't it? Uh, so much wisdom. I think, you know, these It's a 40-year process that you're up to now, from when you left school to, to when you, when you've reached your sabbatical that you're on now. And, uh, these processes of pausing and reflecting, you know, the medical board says that all doctors must do reflective practice. Lots of times we don't quite know what that means, and life takes us over. I think you've given us some lovely examples today of just pulling up, stopping, and having a bit of a look around, seeing, you know, what else might be true or what else might be possible. And some lovely messages about approaching risk. And, uh, you know what I think you said earlier, things— most things are not reversible. So thank you very much for your time today. I really appreciate, uh, being in your presence for this last hour or so.
Rob Blum [00:58:13]:
Yeah, it's been a pleasure.
Sharee Johnson [00:58:18]:
Thanks, Sharee. Well, Dr. Rob Blum has certainly given us a lot of gems, I think, to hang on to from that conversation. Lean into risk, make sure you have options, or at least remember that you have options, that there are more options than you might think. I have a confidant, or maybe have more than one confidant, who you can bounce ideas off. Most things are reversible. I think the other really important story that I loved in Rob's story, and I think we've heard this from Liz Wearn last week too, is these other things. Have other things in your life— music, exercise, art, other people perhaps that aren't medical people. That's my thing, not either of these. They have a variety in your life. We know that our brains love novelty, and that we do well, we thrive when we have other things going on in our lives. So thank you for joining Dr. Rob Blum and I today on Recalibrating with Sharee Johnson. I look forward to talking to you next week, and may you be well. The content in this podcast is not intended to constitute or be a substitute for professional medical or psychological medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your doctor or other qualified healthcare professional. This podcast represents the views of the hosts and guests and do not necessarily reflect those of any entity we work with or for.
